I'm on the radio again

[DesertTortoise]

Blajaeg, you don't lug a canister around behind you. You park it in one spot and work the room pushing only the hose and powered floor brush. For most work the canister stays put in one spot. If you have a big bed in a room you might park the canister on one side, do your vacuuming, move it to the other side and vacuum the rest of the room, but you are not pulling the cansiter with every stroke of the floor brush. Where do these misconceptions come from? I have uprights as well as canister vacs and the uprights are a lot more tiring to use than canister vacs on floors and next to useless for anything above the floor. Yeah my Hoover upright has a stretchy hose but the darn thing keeps popping out of the vacuum base, the latch is soft plastic and very poor. The Windsor is better but the hose just isn't long enough and there is no good place to store the extension wand I bought for it. Even with the extension vacuuming book case shelves or the blades of the ceiling fans are impossible. I tried using it for all my household vacuuming and threw in the towel. It doesn't work and sits parked in the closet unused. And I don't care what Sebo_Fan says, the darn thing gets heavy to push around. It's a shame because it is such a well made vacuum and very quiet.

Sebo_Fan, there is much more to the world of vacuums than the UK market. North America and Asia are out there with very different machines and, it seems, very different vacuuming habits, and who knows what is available in South America. The UK is probably an outlier and not representative of most vacuum markets. Maybe in the UK most canister vacs don't have a powered floor brush and high wattage machined only appeared recently but that is emphatically not the case outside the UK. It doesn't. We don't even talk about the vacs used in Asia, Russia or elsewhere in the world (I'de love to see some restored Warsaw Pact era eastern European and Soviet vacuums if they even had them, or what people in China and Japan are vacuuming their homes with today). There are some trick Japanese vacs we don't even mention here. That is lot bigger market than the UK ever will be, and the Chinese market is so much bigger still. What's for sale in a Shanghai Walmart?

 

[blakaeg]

Yes you have to pull the body of the cylinder machine behind you!! I didn't say with every stroke. I just find them cumbersome myself, particularly the SEBO D4 with a motorised brush head and hose! I'm not familiar with the Windsor or the American Hoover so no point in you mentioning this to me. I prefer an upright design.

 

[DesertTortoise]

I never pull any of my canister vacs around behind me when I vacuum a room or a hallway. I park them in the middle of a room and work around them. At worst I have to push it backwards with a foot to get it out of the way when I finish or to vacuum around the cord. I never drag a canister around. Someone taught you very poor technique if you do.

 

[blakaeg]

Well that's you're opinion. Don't really care to be honest.

 

[sebo_fan]

"…You don't lug a canister around behind you, you park it one spot and work the room pushing only the hose and powered floor brush, for most work the canister stays put in one spot.."

Really? is that why canister vacs have wheels? And none of them lock, so the machine will inevitably move, regardless of whether you think it isn't moving.

I suppose you have gone and added locks to the wheels of your Kenmore then?

In reality, the only one that sits outside this realm of reality are the old Vax tubs where the castors can be taken off. They sold them in the U.S under Dirt Devil Wizard names. I'm sure there are plenty of tub vacuums like the old Vax where the castors can be taken off and left permanently in one place. If it falls over from the slightest tug of the hose, then you'll learn in time that canister vacs do move little by little.

The only other time they don't is when they are stored in the upright position. You can't do that with tubs though, only with sledge style cylinder vacs.

I do agree that having a longer hose means less effort on having to pull a cylinder vac behind you, but having a heavier electric power nozzle on the front isn't all that convenient.

Note, I'm one of few owners on here who has already admitted to owning a cylinder vac with a PN - I seldom use it though - I'm just not into the bulkiness or the cumbersome action. Much prefer suction only floor tools, or air driven turbo brushes - worlds away from heavy PN floor heads.

 

[turbo500]

much more to the world of vacuums than the UK market

Take your own advice. There is far more to the vacuum world than just the US. Not everybody in the world wants to use a powerhead cylinder, which have never been particularly popular in the UK or across mainland Europe.


 


Like I said, people on here write about what they know, which is exactly what we're doing. And I would ask you to do the same instead of mouthing off on a discussion regarding a market you know nothing about and a piece of legislation which doesn't affect you.

 

[sebo_fan]

Id also like to add that most of the vacuums we get in the UK also get sold in Europe and Asia. Not all Asian countries, but most. The UK are not out on a limb where vacuums are concerned.

If you really are that interested in educating yourself, DT then check this link to a thread I created on here from the archives regarding brands in Europe and Asia http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?23459





http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?23459

 

[blakaeg]

Well said turbo500! Agreed.

 

[DesertTortoise]

And yet globally, based on an Electrolux survay of global vacuuming habits, bagged canister vacs greatly outnumber uprights.

http://www.appliancemagazine.com/editorial.php?article=2472

Like I said earlier, the UK is an outlier wrt the vacuum marketplace.

Obtw, there is some data for you. Have fun refuting it. This ought to be good.

 

[turbo500]

Those results are from an online survey. The site makes no reference to which countries this survey was available in, how widely advertised it was, the proportion of participants from each country (28,000 people is not a lot considering how many people are actually on the planet - this could have quite easily been purely a far eastern survey) and it is not based on actual sales.

Also, having been a vacuumland member for 7 years, I think I can safely say that uprights are most definitely more popular on here.

Now, can we at least try and get back onto the topic at hand here before DT decided to vomit all over it, which is the EU legislation on vacuum wattage and rating labels. Quite what the popularity of cylinder PN cleaners has to do with anything is beyond me.

 

[DesertTortoise]

It had to do with a unsupported, and unsupportable, claim that 1400 watt or greater vacuums didn't appear until recently and my counter that they were common enough by the 1980's. Your perceptions are very narrow Sebo_Fan. You see what you see in the UK and impute the whole world is like that. It isn't. The UK is a small country and it's tastes are not representative of the wider world. Nor are the stated tastes of many of this boards members necessarily representative of what the broader public buys.

 

[uksausage]

PN cylinder cleaners

To all of you chatting about this
I'm in the UK and I have few vacuums with power heads First being a vac mach 3 powerhead cylinder that you may have seen on YouTube. I have 3 wertheims all with powerheads I have an older miele cat and dog that I got a seperate powerhead for ( that was when they had the power takeoff socket ) I use to have 2 but sold one I have a filter queen, an old rainbow, a big power, a tristar and a vorwerk tiger all these machines have power nozzles I have just ordered the new Vax with a powerhead and should be here in a few days.
I don't own a cylinder cleaner without a powerhead as I personally don't like them but I know a lot of people won't have anything else
The performance of my of PN cleaners is fantastic most of them have around 2000 watt motors but I NEVER USE FULL POWER I normally have them set around 650 watts and that copes with 6 cats and the dog. I'm so pleased this ruling has been made I've been trying to tell people for years that yhey don't need high power motors.
If I use an upright it's usually a Hoover turbo 1 or a junior low power vacuums with incredible cleaning power and performance. This is down to the design of the motor and the brushroll.
My wertheims have very similar brushrolls the the old Hoover uprights. It has proper beater bars and excellent stiff bristles. They call it vibration technology. Hence when I use it on 650 watts it almost outperforms all my other vacuums.
They are very handy as when using a PN cleaner I just take the handle out the extension tube and I can do my edges, dusting, sofas and my kitchen worktops without having to bend to remove a hose or try and get the hose back round it's hooks on the cleaner I don't have the fear that it's going to fall on me either. Even when using the hose on these machines I never turn up the power. The only ones different are the Vax models My mach 3 is 1400 watts I think ( lol I'm in bed and can't be arsed to go check ) and the power is fixed not variable.
On the subject of cylinders and their heads someone mentioned the first generation of goblin rios now they are cylinders that I loved at first they had a flip over floor tool like electrolux models then they went with the head that didn't swivel and had 4 very small wheels and when you flipped the switch on thd head it only had bristles on the back nothing at the front. I loved those heads I had one on my goblin wet and dry and it did an excellent job even when I had the two speed switch set to 750watts and not 1000watts Why they changed the head I'll never know but on a lower power setting that head was fantastic. My neighbour had a Band ETA cylinder from argos with only 650 watts when I was a kid and that was fantastic because of the head design. It used the same as Phillips vacuums from the same era.
I do think that head design on cylinder cleaners is a big thing It's what determines how well the vacuum will clean.
Lol I'm rambling a load of old crap now Good night vacuum landers

 

[super-sweeper]

Why of COURSE you can sit it in the middle of the room, you've obviously never heard of <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Reach-Easy Cleaning!</span>


 


Only from G.E! I'm sure there's ways to import one! 

 

[davetranter]

Multi-reply

Firstly, congratulations, Turbo500, on your radio 'appearance' (do you actually 'appear' on the radio???) and for helping to debunk decades of poor and lazy advertising. Nice comment about 'Joe Public' expecting a machine to work 'out of the box' and not having a collection of alternative accessories to try (Reply#31)

Desert Tortoise (and others) (Reply#42, et al) makes good points about comparative testing of cleaners. It would be interesting if some of our members could organise some sort of objective tests of 'pick-up' capability on various surfaces, but (IMHO) there are probably too many variables to make this practicable.

Suction Selector mentions having £1,000,000 in front of him. As a matter of (possible) interest or amusement, I actually HAVE had £1,000,000 in front of me, then later under me. It makes quite a lumpy seat!! ;-) . You would be surprised at just how bulky that amount of money is!! Needless to say, it wasn't MY money... :'(

Gr8DaneDad (Reply#45) discusses U.K. canister machines with power nozzles. I've never seen one at all in the U.K. Some early 'Henry' cleaners had a socket for the power connection, but I personally have never seen a floorhead which would use it. We do have a few floorheads with airflow powered brushes (usually described as 'pet' floorheads), but anything else is uncommon indeed.

I (in my limited experience), prefer a canister type cleaner for reasons of lightness of weight of the 'moving part' (no power nozzle, see paragraph above), and superior manouverability.

Thoth (Reply#51) doubts that there will be any great benefit to the consumer in terms of costs and/or reliability. I tend to agree. any new designs will still be cheaply made 'plastivacs' designed to fail after a short working life. lightness of weight (use of less materials i.e. thinner, weaker parts) will still be a major selling point.

Personally, I'm not concerned whether the new, lower wattage vacuum cleaners perform as well as the current crop of high powered beasts or not. Most people these days could use a bit more exercise (me included), so if it takes a few extra passes to clean the floor, what of it??

All best

Dave T

 

[sebo_fan]

Thank you for noting that my perceptions are narrow, DT.

At least I have experience of what I have used. And you are completely wrong to suggest that I am very narrow minded. I've been on this forum a lot longer than you, you can easily Google archive threads and search my name on this forum and see the contributions I have done. They may not appeal to members all the time. In a more recent thread on here I've promoted the Hoover Tempo upright - I may not be able to buy one in the UK or own one - but I have used one in the U.S (due to family I have there).

However, my perceptions are based on the 100s of vacuums I have trialled, or bought, collected, restored and eventually had to sell off because of a lack of space in a British home. Some of them are too great to sell off - that's the joy of a collector.

I am thankful that you have noted that other members on this forum have just as much experience as I do. However most members in the U.S are privy to having far more vacuum cleaner brands that we in the UK don't get to have.

Of the American brands we do have, Kirby is the most expensive, Oreck is the poorest having to put up with older models that the U.S don't even sell much of and at a push we've had the TTI bodied Wertheim cylinder/canister with a PN head.

Anything before that has come from Miele Hoover Europe and other brands that uksausage has mentiond above.

CLEARLY, if the UK market were in love with canister vacs with PN's, then wouldn't we have a lot more?

Another aspect that I'd like to mention that seems to have "gone missing" from this slight off topic is that despite the manufacturers decreasing wattage on main motors, what about decreasing watts on actual PN heads? On account that Vorwerk used to have some 50 to 80 watts PN heads, it will be interesting to see if this new EU law makes an impact on powered nozzles as well.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Sebo_Fan, maybe you should post up some photos of you working on your vacuums like I do. Not pretty vacuums you bought and display but the ugly ones you had to take apart and rebuild from the bare body up. Everyone here knows I have some real hands on refurbishing vacuums (and some blood equity in that Electrolux!). You have all seen the photos. I just put some up of the progress or lack thereof on the Avocado Bomber. That thing is kicking my keister. But I have a touch memory of my vacs inside and out. What about you? As far as we know you never take a vacuum apart or restore them. You just talk a lot but what do you really know? All hat and no cattle pal.

 

[turbo500]

All hat and no cattle pal.

you really don't know anything about anything, do you DT?

Sebo_Fan has been an important member of the vacuum world for a LONG time. When I first joined up to one of the old sites back in 2005, Sebo_Fan had already been posting long before I joined. You've been here for less than 3 months. Quite frankly, for you to sign up to a site and start making judgements about members far more knowledgable, experienced and respected than yourself kinda makes you a giant asshole.

Just because somebody doesn't post every single thing they do on here, doesn't mean they don't do it. I've had to do some restoration work on every vintage cleaner I own, from a quick wipe down and polish to a full strip down and refurb, yet I rarely post about doing such things on here. Doesn't mean I don't do it.

 

[sebo_fan]

Maybe you should sort out your ignorance

Well, unlike you DT I am not an engineer. I get more satisfaction out of using vacuums rather than potter about with a screwdriver and wonder how I can make an original design worse by "thinking I am better" than the brand who makes it.

Secondly like most collectors on here, I get pleasure from using a vacuum cleaner possibly down to its external look, its internal performance and the nice, fuzzy feeling inside when something vintage or modern is still kicking along.

I am also a product reviewer - and if your complete ignorance can't search out my name on the Internet to see the hundreds of reviews I've written based on the products I've bought then that's your problem.

Lastly DT, we collectors are all different, just like different vacuums and different countries take on issues and general lifestyle tastes. Something, I feel you clearly don't understand the definition of.