IDEA!!!

[nycwriter]

So I'm looking at everyone's amazing collections -- and some of them are quite huge -- and I'm wondering, at the end of the day, what positive benefit can there be by acquiring and fixing up -- and hanging onto -- all these old vacuums?

Oh don't get me wrong -- I'm not knocking it -- if it brings you pleasure, like any other endeavor, go for it!

I'm just wondering, though, if some of this enthusiasm and energy couldn't be channelled in a direction I know we'd all love to see.

Namely, creating our OWN vacuum company.

We all know what we want, what we like, what works, and what doesn't work in vacuum cleaners. I see such a reverence and respect here for classic designs, top-quality materials, and top-notch workmanship.

We all pretty much universally hate the direction mass-produced vacuums have taken, so rather than just complaining about companies like TTI that have turned our beloved Hoover brand into a joke, why not create our OWN Hoover? Or Kirby. Or Royal. Or whatever.

We'll take the best of the best and create our own vacuum -- more powerful and versatile than any other, better built than a Kirby, quiet as a whisper, zero dust emissions, made entirely out of chrome??

Just an idea.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Who would be your target consumer?

 

[nycwriter]

Target consumer?

I suppose that would be the Kirby/Aerus/Rainbow demographic; people who see value in well-built machines, and wouldn't mind shelling out upwards of $2,000 for a quality, hand-built product.

We'd never capture the current Dyson/Hoover/plastivac demographic, because those people are just too focused on NOT paying more than a couple hundred bucks. It is impossible to viably market a quality, well-built machine at such a low price point, so there's no point in even trying to woo those low-end customers.

I had an eye-opening conversation with an Aerus dealer on Manhattan's Upper East Side about the closing of the Aerus dealership on West 23rd Street in Chelsea. To briefly explain Manhattan demographics, Chelsea these days is loaded with new high-rise luxury apartment buildings, mostly studios, one- and two-bedrooms either renting in the $3K-8K per month range, or selling in the $600K (for one bedrooms) range, up into the eight figures for the premier properties. It's mostly rich, young, single professionals (household incomes over $150K). And since most of the apartments are rentals, they are incredibly mobile. It seems the Chelsea dealership, while having been there for decades, couldn't sustain enough business to stay open in that location. So they're moving to the Upper West Side, which has an equally "rich" (if not richer) demographic, but with two big differences: 1) the apartments, like on the Upper East Side, are bigger and more often filled with families, rather than singles or "power couples", and 2) more of the housing stock is condos and co-ops rather than rentals, so the residents there are much more permanent.

It was the ultimate "aha!" moment; just being affluent doesn't preclude cheapness; $300K/year professionals who don't appreciate quality and workmanship can be just as critical of the price tag of a $2,000 vacuum as those scraping by on $26,000. And if they're single and mobile, chances are they don't have the space (or the rugs or carpeting) to worry about the long-term cleanliness of an apartment they'll be moving out of within a year anyway.

So further fleshing out our target demographic: Home owners (or LONG-TERM renters) with substantial amounts of carpeting.

As well as the super-health conscious among us who worry about toxins in dust.

 

[sebo_fan]

I like the idea but its a mere dream - but then you're coming from America, the land of plenty - and your country has a lot more home brands and metal vacuums than the UK. Adding another from a vacuum cleaner enthusiast opens possibilities, but financially I think it is precarious - unless a whole boat of collectors get together on here to open a manufacturing base and start putting out a unique vacuum cleaner that will satisfy buyers - I don't think that is possible unless you consider rebuilding other appliances - such as a "retro" line of vacuums, kettles, washing machines etc. It is do-able but if you just concentrate on vacuums alone, you're still going to need a huge investment behind you including a parts division, not to mention patents and permissions from existing brands.

A small home business could work but then you'd also have to declare the tax you're making off the products you sell and be able to have enough investment behind you to pay out for any parts that get broken. Even if you build the vacuum up in question to the highest quality etc, you may end up paying for those who buy from you, if it goes wrong in less than a year.

I think generally that even if we are vacuum cleaner collectors - at the end of the day - it is an expensive hobby that doesn't normally pay out unless you, yourself has sourced rare examples of vacuums that are sought after. Buyers don't generally like to be educated these days, either when it comes to costs. They'll usually just jump at low prices since most of us are living in austerity.

 

[nycwriter]

Good points, Nar ...

... but you lost me at "since most of us are living in austerity".

That's been true for most low- and middle-income Americans pretty much forever. But here's the big difference between then and now: back THEN, people didn't mind paying (in today's dollars) $250 for a toaster that they knew would last for 40 years ... $675 for a Hoover Convertible they knew would last into the next century ... etc. TODAY, however, we're so used to cheap throwaways from China that we can't imagine paying more than $10 for a toaster, or $250 for a plastivac.

 

[sebo_fan]

Austerity = having to pay more for the basics.

The problem isn't so much that the Chinese appear to have taken over with producing cheaper built vacuums - but sadly the way that we, as a nation have become. I'm not just talking about the UK but generally - we've become too greedy in our demands. 40 or however many years ago, you could buy a TV or an appliance that was built to last because the economy back then was much stronger than it is today -

Austerity means the whole country is being made to pay more for food, lifestyle needs, wants and pursuits. Because the governments are basically trying to pay back the economy's deficit, a lot of things have risen in price in household appliances too - Dyson, Miele and other premiums are higher priced than they normally are. Five years ago, I found it easy to advise a Miele cylinder vacuum over a comparatively cheap supermarket brand. Now, it is completely different - buyers will go for the cheapest prices - because the "cheap" prices now certainly weren't as cheap as they were three to five years ago. My own experience found Miele's S381 that was usually a £100 bargain three years ago elevated to £150 and finally bottoming out at £179 just a couple of months ago and would never ever considered spending that much on an older Miele canister, even if it is better built.

Online FIX forums and user manual forums are continually showing up people who have bought cheap and cheerful appliances but then find out the hard way when they require spares. Still, people continue to buy cheap appliances and I don't think the Chinese are to blame - without China, we wouldn't have the Black and Decker cordless dust buster for starters! I think the brands have a lot to answer for - the ones who have over priced their appliances from the very start and for the fact that due to a lack of money, brands have turned their backs away from consumer loyalty, despite extended warranties etc.

If the product isn't reasonably priced enough, buyers will walk away - no matter how many awards, how many recommendations and how good it is judged by companies online. Of course one can argue that a good vacuum cleaner comes down to preference and experience. But most buyers aren't concerned about it and would usually jump through hoops to get a bonus attachment or something extra along the way if they were pushed to pay more.

But buying cheap also has a double edged sword - whilst spares may be hard to get - buyers usually end up buying the same model or another model from the same brand again because of the cheap cost price.

Also if buyers are already paying that kind of money for a traditional chrome set up, what can you offer that is different?

 

[sebo_fan]

Austerity = having to pay more for the basics.

The problem isn't so much that the Chinese appear to have taken over with producing cheaper built vacuums - but sadly the way that we, as a nation have become. I'm not just talking about the UK but generally - we've become too greedy in our demands. 40 or however many years ago, you could buy a TV or an appliance that was built to last because the economy back then was much stronger than it is today -

Austerity means the whole country is being made to pay more for food, lifestyle needs, wants and pursuits. Because the governments are basically trying to pay back the economy's deficit, a lot of things have risen in price in household appliances too - Dyson, Miele and other premiums are higher priced than they normally are. Five years ago, I found it easy to advise a Miele cylinder vacuum over a comparatively cheap supermarket brand. Now, it is completely different - buyers will go for the cheapest prices - because the "cheap" prices now certainly weren't as cheap as they were three to five years ago. My own experience found Miele's S381 that was usually a £100 bargain three years ago elevated to £150 and finally bottoming out at £179 just a couple of months ago and would never ever considered spending that much on an older Miele canister, even if it is better built.

Online FIX forums and user manual forums are continually showing up people who have bought cheap and cheerful appliances but then find out the hard way when they require spares. Still, people continue to buy cheap appliances and I don't think the Chinese are to blame - without China, we wouldn't have the Black and Decker cordless dust buster for starters! I think the brands have a lot to answer for - the ones who have over priced their appliances from the very start and for the fact that due to a lack of money, brands have turned their backs away from consumer loyalty, despite extended warranties etc.

If the product isn't reasonably priced enough, buyers will walk away - no matter how many awards, how many recommendations and how good it is judged by companies online. Of course one can argue that a good vacuum cleaner comes down to preference and experience. But most buyers aren't concerned about it and would usually jump through hoops to get a bonus attachment or something extra along the way if they were pushed to pay more.

But buying cheap also has a double edged sword - whilst spares may be hard to get - buyers usually end up buying the same model or another model from the same brand again because of the cheap cost price.

Also if buyers are already paying that kind of money for a traditional chrome set up, what can you offer that is different?

Also, lot of buyers these days really go to town on the abuse of them - cue the paper pleated filters that usually get ignored as well as bagged vacuums that get thrown because of a mere clog or filled bag. 40 years ago, owners wouldn't do that - they would either get the machine repaired or try the maintenance themselves.

 

[ralph123]

do you really need to spend over a thousand bucks for a good

I recently toured the Vacuum Museum in St James, MO and was impressed. Simplicity/Riccar produce high quality American made vacuums, and many can be purchased for far less than $1000. The entry level 9-lb Freedom vacuum retails for around $280. The entry level clean air design Symmetry model lists for around $300. The top notch 7 series upright retails for around $769. Certainly some retail for more than $1000 (e.g. Synergy Premium that's used on Air Force One for about $1500, basic model $1100), but there are some excellent choices for far less. (All prices from Simplicity web site http://www.simplicityvac.com/ - and are suggested retail.)

If you haven't seen the Vacuum museum in St James, MO, it's well worth a visit. I'm looking forward to seeing whether a vacuum historian like Tom can influence future product designs and bring back the best ideas from the past.

 

[dysonman1]

What I did with my vacuum collection....

I took everything I knew about vacuums, and convinced a major manufacturer to open a museum to house my collection, allow me to 'play' every day when I come to work - with my own vintage vacuums, as well as influence the future of vacuum cleaner design by focusing on the successes of the past. Next year, Tacony is bringing out a new upright vacuum that every vintage cleaner enthusiast should recognize. It was named the model K-1. The engineering department first got interested in this new design by their regular visits to me at the Museum. Time and again, I went back to the unique features of this one unique vacuum. Finally, two of our engineers took their own personal time, and redesigned this particular machine for 2013. As Tacony's Vice President of the Floor Care Division joked, the engineers have "drank the Kool-Aid" and so the model is called K-1. Yes, I'm trying every day to actually influence vacuum cleaner design. It happens little by little - but there's 4 machines in the works for 2014 that will blow everyone away. And all serious, well rounded vacuum collectors will be able to look at them and see the influences of the past. I feel very proud to be able to talk one on one with actual engineers who DO want to make the best vacuum possible.

 

[ncovert]

I've had this idea!

Yes, a vac company by collectors would be great. We all know the best, and we can make the best types for each situation, whether it be upright, tank/canister, handheld, dirty air, clean air, etc...

 

[thekirbylover]

Amazing Idea

but I'm in Britain so could not really be much use to you, I would love to work for candy/TTI and make some actual god vacuums

 

[vintagerepairer]

Austerity is the right word. Times are very hard at the moment for a good deal of people. We have had high quality goods at high prices, we are now able to buy cheap quality at cheap prices. The latter is, it would seem, what consumers currently desire.

Of course it is easy for anyone to forget that a business is there to be run as such, and not as a service to society. Cheap quality imported goods make a profit. High quality costs money, and when that quality comes at more than double the cost of a lower quality product, consumers will (and indeed do) question what they get in return for paying 100% more. Will they get a product that lasts 100% longer, or works 100% better? Probably not, and many people are not prepared to take that chance.

I am not saying it is right, and I am not saying it is wrong. I am saying that these are the times we are in. It's nothing new though, the same argument has been had many times over the years. The only difference is that in the UK prices for so many none-grocery items has plummeted to an all time low, despite the cost of day to day goods in supermarkets, plus gas & electricity prices going through the roof.

 

[caligula]

Hi NYCWriter.

It's true that a lot of us have huge collections. I can't speak for anybody else, but the machines I collected in the past more or less fell into my lap. As for the long coveted models, those always eluded me.

We all collect for different reasons. For some of it's a favorite brand, for others a style. Yes, there are guys who collect exclusively Air-Way, Electroulx, Hoover, Kirby, and what have you. Some like newer machines, some vintage, and some, like me, are into rare antique machines like the non electrics. Many of us were bitten by the vacuum cleaner bug as small children. Any collector, be that toy trains, model cars, or kitchen appliances got the start by seeing something that caught his eye. The same is true for those into cars, motorcycles, bottle caps, records or stamps. For me, it wasn't just the vacuum cleaner that got my attention, but the person who owned it. As a kid, I had a strong desire to know what brand of vacuum cleaner my friends mothers were using. So if Jimmy's mom was using a Hamilton Beach Hatbox, I made a mental note of it. However, that was only part of it, I also had an interest in the history of the machine. It was through this interest that I talked my way into being hired by an Electrolux branch manager. He didn't know it at the time, but he gave me all the tools to start searching the history of Electrolux. Years later, I got into patent searches and began the process of researching a given brand.

My first collectable was an 1890 canister pumper called the 'Lakeside,' up to now everything was on paper. From that time I began collecting actual machines, like that 'Lakeside, which I acquired in 1973, to my huge collection of all brands, it was the history that mattered most.

When John Lucia and I left Hoover in September of 82, we both thought of others out there who were strugling. We knew that they too, were being put down for having a strange interest. That like us, they were collecting data, and in most cases hitting brick walls. So I wrote to the few people who's names we got from Stacy Krammes and formed a club.

At first it was a teaching club and resource center, and as my home was club headquarters, I decided to make my collection the club museum.

Aside from the V.C.C.C., nobody had any interest in vacuum cleaners! The Chicago Historical Society couldn't care less about the 1869 Whirlwind, nor anypalce else for that matter. Yes, Hoover welcomed the V.C.C.C. with open arms, after-all we were part of the 'industry,' and a few local newspapers were amused by us, but that was it! Both John Lucia, and Tom Gasko will recall the brutal press we got when the club went to Hoover in 1994! Tom's museum is triving because it again has the backing of the vacuum cleaner industry. I tried to do the same with the club museum in Naperville, Illinois, and hit that standard brick wall.

As I see it, the way members share their private collections here at Vacuumland is the best way to do it. Am I open to a club museum? yes, but that was talked about at the first club meeting in May of 85. We also thought of writing a book, and other things. None of them worked. Why? basically, because we were what we thought at the time, a fly by night club! Looking back, I would have done things a lot more professionally if we had ever thought this club had far reaching potential. We were, at that time, just a group of friends with a strange interest. It wasn't till I retired from the club in May of 1995, that things started happening. Through Charles Richard Lester, the club went into cyberspace, and grew by leaps and bounds. And now that we have joined Vacuumland, there's no stopping us.

Alex Taber.

 

[parwaz786]

My Idea

Company= Supreme vacs
Slogan= the vacuum you wished for
Place= sold in a vac shop in a place where there is not much competition, and when there is lots of revenue, you can go bigger
Price= Sell so much vacs at a price im-between the price of a Dyson and aBbissell, so everyone knows they are good vacs, and also affordable for Example the Numatic Henry in the UK
Product= your vac
Promotion= Start with leaflets, online advertising, then when there's more income, go onto bill boards, TV adverts and even online advertising!
Also do surveys to people to know what they really wan from a vac, so make that slogan honest

 

[sebo_fan]

Cue an example I wanted to add earlier = pal of mine had a top of the range Siemens dishwasher - he didn't take my advice to go for the cheaper equivalent Bosch dishwasher since they're the same company but he paid more for the fancy finish on the door, 2 years ago. This premium dishwasher cost him £600, £180 or so more than the Bosch machine. The Siemens came with a lengthy guarantee and he was so impressed with the brand, went ahead and ordered quite a few other large appliances, each time registering with the company (as you do) when it came to warranties.

So when the control panel developed a fault indicating a problem with the pump, Siemens investigated and found that the dishwasher required a part that they no longer stock. Neither he or I could believe it! The dishwasher would have to be thrown away, all because one tiny little part was not available for it anymore. This would never have happened back in the 1960s! You'd expect the company to repair the machine and have the part in stock continually.

Siemens also surprisingly only offered a middle of the range dishwasher with the comparative price of what he paid for - but he's pursuing the matter with the company's lawyers as he isn't happy at Siemens response (well I wouldn't be either) . So much for customer loyalty!

I see Siemens have released a safety recall on dishwashers built between 1999 to 2005....

http://www.siemens-home.co.uk/product-repair.html

 

[sebo_fan]

dysonman1 - what a great idea and a fantastic opportunity - could you perhaps push Tacony for international/Europe/UK sales though? I'm sure they brand would do well here - Hoover are stuck in the water where bagged uprights are concerned let alone Electrolux who keep putting out their cheap Powerlite upright. That one isn't so bad if you're into light plastics but a new brand with bagged uprights would be fantastic.

They may have to change the name though since there is already a "K1," from SEBO, even if the dash between letter and number is different.

 

[rugsucker]

vacuum demographics

Interesting point about NYC above.Another factor may be the singles leaving the high dollar apt and then maid riding bus or subway to clean.I saw a show on NYC jobs that said maid and client often never meet.If the client returned home and everything looked OK they may not know or care if a vac is in one of the possibly small closet areas.
We have an area with many overseas execs coming over to work a year or two.Some will build a nice house but have a cheap or no central vac as they consider it temporary.
Tom,and others,are right that various vintage vacs had the features to clean todays homes.It could then be a matter of picking and choosing features and adapting to todays manufacturing,styles,colors and consumers.

 

[ned_flanders]

If you really want to do this and be successful, you've got to consider price, like everyone else has been saying, but also marketing. I think Dyson was very smart about that, and I remember wanting one when they started to appear. I didn't know anything about vacuums, and most people don't. I had thought bagless was a great idea, and I believed from the commercials that they were great vacuums (not realizing the first vacuums were bagless). When I wanted a Dyson (because of the marketing), my parents still went with the latest Kenmore bagged canister. But now that I know more about Dyson and don't want one, my parents went with a Dyson, and I hate it. They wanted the Dyson simply because it was bagless, and that was probably the best brand that they were familiar with offered in a big box store (because of all the commercials). They did not research vacuums or try them out.

I think you would have to create a vacuum that is priced lower than the Dyson. I think the Shark commercials are good at showing that they offer the same vacuum (if not better) at a much lower cost.

You would also have to create a design that stands out, something neo-retro.

You would have to offer a new gimmick. Perhaps a chamber system that filters out large items like toys that might accidentally be vacuumed up by a careless person which could be retrieved later from a clear compartment within the vacuum. (we can all agree that people are careless and hard on vacuums) Or perhaps a special trash can adaptor that hooks up to a bagless canister that transfers the contents from the canister into the trash without any of it getting into the air (essentially a 2nd vacuum to empty the vacuum!). Or perhaps you could invent a vacuum that incinerates its contents, meaning a vacuum you'd rarely have to empty.

You also might want to research what people are looking for in a vacuum. Not people like us, but people who don't really know anything about vacuums.

And you'll want an unforgettable commercial (that is probably subtley sexy to give you an edge). I think that's how most people are educated about vacuums, and Dyson did a great job teaching people to believe they were making improvements and a better vacuum...when in reality, I'd say they created a 'different' vacuum. Bagless was not new, the cyclone wasn't new, and the ball was a gimmick. But they sold it on TV as new and revolutionary, and better than the average vacuum. Over the last 5 years, I think I've seen more Dyson commercials than any other, and they've been consistent. And now there's a Dyson at home. I wonder how long it will last.

**I am not attacking Dyson, but I don't think they are the best vacuums. They were however, very smart with marketing and advertising.

 

[sebo_fan]

Some brands dont need commercials - SEBO for one have never really had a commercial on TV regarding their vacuums until maybe the Internet came along where certain country based branches of the brands come up with their own promo videos.