How much is my ...........worth?
- Thread starter myvacsrock
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Ian,
By all means do the book! I am more than willing to be a consultant..............for a fee. Perhaps someone else will want to do a book and then my fee can be auctioned on ebay. Capitalism at it's best.
Mark,
The content of your last post, directed to me, has been discussed and consequently taken up much of the time at the last 7 conventions that I have attended. Since you were not there, you have no knowledge to refer back to. Obfuscation? Really. This group makes those kinds of comparisons even if it appears as apples to oranges to you. You haven't been to convention to know that is total truth.
Again, you have not been privy to those past lengthy conversations so your reference point is limited at best when discussing with the "senior" members.
Those that have visited me and have seen my vacuums at conventions, (again, you have seen none of my vacuums at conventions or at mini-meets so point of reference does not exist), would openly state that my vaccums are of the same quality or better than Stan's. So, is my point of reference based on seeing Stan's or my own? Or on seeing anyone else's or what I see on ebay?
Would a buyer pay the same for my Hoover 150, all original, (except bag), down to the box, or a 150 on ebay with a replaced cord, brushroll, bag, switch, etc. This makes the divide large in opinion and dollars spent.
And, who has decided that Stan has the definitive vacuums or the definitive collection? I still contend this is a guessing game on some level and whoever has the most money generally wins when it is a, "holy grail", vacuum and again, who has made the decision of what, "holy grail", vacuums are. Charles Lester and other longtime members have discussed for years on forums, emails, snail mail, newsletters, etc. Again, could this have been perhaps before you were a member so we are coming from another place?
I like the fact that it is generating so much discussion and passion. However, this will be my last post on this as you have your thoughts as others, including me, have mine.
We could discuss this till the cows come home and then some and probably agree on a lot and probably agree to disagree and almost an equal number of things as well.
Now, as for sitting on Tania'a lap, I may be putting that up for bids on ebay............care to suggest an opening bid?
By all means do the book! I am more than willing to be a consultant..............for a fee. Perhaps someone else will want to do a book and then my fee can be auctioned on ebay. Capitalism at it's best.
Mark,
The content of your last post, directed to me, has been discussed and consequently taken up much of the time at the last 7 conventions that I have attended. Since you were not there, you have no knowledge to refer back to. Obfuscation? Really. This group makes those kinds of comparisons even if it appears as apples to oranges to you. You haven't been to convention to know that is total truth.
Again, you have not been privy to those past lengthy conversations so your reference point is limited at best when discussing with the "senior" members.
Those that have visited me and have seen my vacuums at conventions, (again, you have seen none of my vacuums at conventions or at mini-meets so point of reference does not exist), would openly state that my vaccums are of the same quality or better than Stan's. So, is my point of reference based on seeing Stan's or my own? Or on seeing anyone else's or what I see on ebay?
Would a buyer pay the same for my Hoover 150, all original, (except bag), down to the box, or a 150 on ebay with a replaced cord, brushroll, bag, switch, etc. This makes the divide large in opinion and dollars spent.
And, who has decided that Stan has the definitive vacuums or the definitive collection? I still contend this is a guessing game on some level and whoever has the most money generally wins when it is a, "holy grail", vacuum and again, who has made the decision of what, "holy grail", vacuums are. Charles Lester and other longtime members have discussed for years on forums, emails, snail mail, newsletters, etc. Again, could this have been perhaps before you were a member so we are coming from another place?
I like the fact that it is generating so much discussion and passion. However, this will be my last post on this as you have your thoughts as others, including me, have mine.
We could discuss this till the cows come home and then some and probably agree on a lot and probably agree to disagree and almost an equal number of things as well.
Now, as for sitting on Tania'a lap, I may be putting that up for bids on ebay............care to suggest an opening bid?
hoover1060
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,093
like the flippin' energizer bunny
This just keeps going...
Ok Mark, SPLAIN THIS: a couple years back I had a brand new never used Hoover DUAL VOLTAGE Convertible. Rare machine by any standard...
I was not that attached to it so I put it on ebay, and it sold for a whopping $49!
That was the market...
There can't be any set value for these machines, its too subjective...
This just keeps going...
Ok Mark, SPLAIN THIS: a couple years back I had a brand new never used Hoover DUAL VOLTAGE Convertible. Rare machine by any standard...
I was not that attached to it so I put it on ebay, and it sold for a whopping $49!
That was the market...
There can't be any set value for these machines, its too subjective...
rocketwarrior
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2006
- Messages
- 522
Well, Jeff...
Tell me, Jeff. What do you think it is worth?
I don't even know what a Hoover dual voltage convertable is. But, let me work with you. At this point, I don't have your opinion (which I would probably value - even though I am going to have to give you a good wupping in September.) Also, I know that ebay can be wiggy. However, I won't sandbag you - about this. So....
I, Mark, think the fair market value of that machine is between $25.00 and $ 75.00. Disclaimer: This, "educated guess", is based on limited experience and with a very small and specialized market and should be used for discussion purposes only. You are cautioned that prices may vary incredibly.
I did the best I could with the data I had dropping 50% and adding 50% to determine the range.
Tell me, Jeff. What do you think it is worth?
I don't even know what a Hoover dual voltage convertable is. But, let me work with you. At this point, I don't have your opinion (which I would probably value - even though I am going to have to give you a good wupping in September.) Also, I know that ebay can be wiggy. However, I won't sandbag you - about this. So....
I, Mark, think the fair market value of that machine is between $25.00 and $ 75.00. Disclaimer: This, "educated guess", is based on limited experience and with a very small and specialized market and should be used for discussion purposes only. You are cautioned that prices may vary incredibly.
I did the best I could with the data I had dropping 50% and adding 50% to determine the range.
rocketwarrior
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2006
- Messages
- 522
Now that was trippy
Charlie:
My comments in post #17124 apparently resulted in you feeling a need to put me in my place – having not attended conventions and engaged in the discussions over the years. Then, you bristled a bit at my implication that Mr. Kahn’s 950 might be a special cleaner or that his collection might be special. That seemed to bother you because you emphasized that your vacuums “…are of the same quality or better than Stan's.” Later you quipped, “And, who has decided that Stan has the definitive vacuums or the definitive collection?” Garsh, lighten up, flyboy. It’s okay, Charlie, really, I am sure your cleaners are wonderful. I would be the last person to suggest Mr. Kahn’s machines are better than yours. (Actually, I would flip a coin with Ian to see who could be the last). And, I didn’t make that suggestion.
But, for the record, you were not talking about your collection in thread #17109. You were talking about Mr. Kahn’s 950 on the one hand, and “every 950” on the other. And if you are saying you have a 950 and you are saying your 950 is better than Stan’s, then, as was the case with Mr. Kahn’s machine, I suspect that you would think that if you let it be known that your 950 is for sale you would expect a decent/high price and wouldn’t be talking $5 to $50. What’s the problem?
Now, I do agree, as you contend, that it is a guessing game. And that is all an appraisal is, a guess. A decent guess. an educated guess, but a guess. It seems like y’all are saying something like, “Why, son, that would be guessing. Surely you cannot expect men of our stature to guess?” What have you got against guessing games?
[Premise #1]: My point has only, and continues to be, that we can pick a date (i.e. date of death) and value anything as of that date. Some values will be more accurate or more reliable than others, but commerce and taxation mandate that we cannot say it can’t be done. I don’t know squat, and don’t need to know squat, about Stan’s or your vacuums. You can put me in my place all you like for my lack of history and lack of experience with vacs or the club – but I still can’t tell the IRS examiner, “Gee, guy, the board of directors said that would be guessing and, well, ….”
But let’s leave the Fed out of it. [Premise #2]: (And this premise is not as solid as premise #1) There is an unwritten policy among our seniors that opinions of value will be avoided - which is what I suggested to Kyle in post #16544 (a couple of hundred posts ago).
In my culture, you can say, “C’mon, best guess?” And get a thoughtful answer.
Ian:
Recall, my good man, the warning in post #17129? You are wise to withdraw.
Charlie:
My comments in post #17124 apparently resulted in you feeling a need to put me in my place – having not attended conventions and engaged in the discussions over the years. Then, you bristled a bit at my implication that Mr. Kahn’s 950 might be a special cleaner or that his collection might be special. That seemed to bother you because you emphasized that your vacuums “…are of the same quality or better than Stan's.” Later you quipped, “And, who has decided that Stan has the definitive vacuums or the definitive collection?” Garsh, lighten up, flyboy. It’s okay, Charlie, really, I am sure your cleaners are wonderful. I would be the last person to suggest Mr. Kahn’s machines are better than yours. (Actually, I would flip a coin with Ian to see who could be the last). And, I didn’t make that suggestion.
But, for the record, you were not talking about your collection in thread #17109. You were talking about Mr. Kahn’s 950 on the one hand, and “every 950” on the other. And if you are saying you have a 950 and you are saying your 950 is better than Stan’s, then, as was the case with Mr. Kahn’s machine, I suspect that you would think that if you let it be known that your 950 is for sale you would expect a decent/high price and wouldn’t be talking $5 to $50. What’s the problem?
Now, I do agree, as you contend, that it is a guessing game. And that is all an appraisal is, a guess. A decent guess. an educated guess, but a guess. It seems like y’all are saying something like, “Why, son, that would be guessing. Surely you cannot expect men of our stature to guess?” What have you got against guessing games?
[Premise #1]: My point has only, and continues to be, that we can pick a date (i.e. date of death) and value anything as of that date. Some values will be more accurate or more reliable than others, but commerce and taxation mandate that we cannot say it can’t be done. I don’t know squat, and don’t need to know squat, about Stan’s or your vacuums. You can put me in my place all you like for my lack of history and lack of experience with vacs or the club – but I still can’t tell the IRS examiner, “Gee, guy, the board of directors said that would be guessing and, well, ….”
But let’s leave the Fed out of it. [Premise #2]: (And this premise is not as solid as premise #1) There is an unwritten policy among our seniors that opinions of value will be avoided - which is what I suggested to Kyle in post #16544 (a couple of hundred posts ago).
In my culture, you can say, “C’mon, best guess?” And get a thoughtful answer.
Ian:
Recall, my good man, the warning in post #17129? You are wise to withdraw.
rocketwarrior
Well-known member
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- Aug 29, 2006
- Messages
- 522
...and another thing (smile).
Loose Definition: For purposes this post I will use the term “senior members” (of the club). This reference has exceptions, of course, and there are those who don’t participate at all (so we just don’t know their position on this topic).
Here Goes: Note my premises in post #17160 above, I feel obliged to state that “off thread” communications have caused me to modify somewhat premise #2. First, I will restate the premises:
Premise #1: Vintage cleaners have a fair market value as of any given date.
Premise #2: Senior club members seem to have a policy against sharing their opinion of that value. [Premise #1 appears to be solid, and validated; premise #2 will be adjusted below].
A review of the postings shows an almost vehement consensus of senior members that an opinion of the value of a machine is impossible to render because it is “only worth what a buyer will pay.” Of course I reject that and so does the IRS.
BUT GET THIS: At the same time that senior members are giving us that tired old Aunt Tilley saw that vintage machines are unable to be valued, A TOTAL STRANGER IS PROVIDED, “OFF THREAD,” A GOOD FAITH ESTIMATE OF THE VALUE OF A MACHINE BY A SENIOR MEMBER AND THAT VALUATION/RESPONSE WAS SHARED WITH OTHER MEMBERS “OFF THREAD.” An off-thread stranger to the club was given a studied, honest, thoughtful, even eloquent, response, including a tight “range” of value and a cautionary reference to the wiggy things that can happen on value. In other words, the response was virtually in the “form” that I provided on this thread only with a lot more words.
Therefore, Premise #2 should probably be modified to include the words “on thread.” This would be the modified Premise #2:
Premise #2: Senior club members seem to have a policy against sharing their opinion of value “on thread” but some will consider sharing such information in limited situations “off thread.”
Where are we? Recall where we started. Kyle asked for a value, I said the machine could be valued, but wouldn’t be. I then modified the exercise (to avoid the excuse of no good pics) to move it to a hypothetical vac which was as Kyle described (to obviate the need of pics) and included plenty of hedge. It appears that Premise #1 and Premise #2 (as modified) have been proven. That seems to be where we are.
OFF THREAD STUFF: But I have an aside about “off thread.” I presume there are people who tune in to these discussions and take them at face value, contributing posts or not. That was always my approach. Then, a couple of times, during the “other club break-out” and the computer geek “break-in” adventures I started to become aware that there was a parallel universe of off-thread stuff.
Now, it makes sense, in any club, that people form relationships and communicate with select or limited groups off thread. That is the upside. The downside is that it also seems that is where people get in trouble.
I was only tuned “on thread” here but then people started providing me with a lot of ‘off thread’ input, goading, discouragement, encouragement or whatever. Yikes, there I was in that insidious parallel universe. I was given tips on personality clashes, motivation, etc. I was provided data from sources not permitted on this site. I was chastised by seniors. And it was most unclear what I could/should use and what was covered by some ethic discouraging on thread use. I would be given stuff that seemed clearly intended to be included by me “on thread” but in some cases I could not be certain of that, and then there was the quandary of identity disclosure vs. content disclosure. I chose to keep the identities undisclosed and use little of the data. (The above disclosure of an estimate given to a stranger is an example of data I chose to use for the obvious reason of its clear relevancy).
I think “off thread” can be a squirrely universe. There can be good data and some friendly chuckles; on the other hand, it can be an insidious, backstabbing world.
Y’all take care.
Loose Definition: For purposes this post I will use the term “senior members” (of the club). This reference has exceptions, of course, and there are those who don’t participate at all (so we just don’t know their position on this topic).
Here Goes: Note my premises in post #17160 above, I feel obliged to state that “off thread” communications have caused me to modify somewhat premise #2. First, I will restate the premises:
Premise #1: Vintage cleaners have a fair market value as of any given date.
Premise #2: Senior club members seem to have a policy against sharing their opinion of that value. [Premise #1 appears to be solid, and validated; premise #2 will be adjusted below].
A review of the postings shows an almost vehement consensus of senior members that an opinion of the value of a machine is impossible to render because it is “only worth what a buyer will pay.” Of course I reject that and so does the IRS.
BUT GET THIS: At the same time that senior members are giving us that tired old Aunt Tilley saw that vintage machines are unable to be valued, A TOTAL STRANGER IS PROVIDED, “OFF THREAD,” A GOOD FAITH ESTIMATE OF THE VALUE OF A MACHINE BY A SENIOR MEMBER AND THAT VALUATION/RESPONSE WAS SHARED WITH OTHER MEMBERS “OFF THREAD.” An off-thread stranger to the club was given a studied, honest, thoughtful, even eloquent, response, including a tight “range” of value and a cautionary reference to the wiggy things that can happen on value. In other words, the response was virtually in the “form” that I provided on this thread only with a lot more words.
Therefore, Premise #2 should probably be modified to include the words “on thread.” This would be the modified Premise #2:
Premise #2: Senior club members seem to have a policy against sharing their opinion of value “on thread” but some will consider sharing such information in limited situations “off thread.”
Where are we? Recall where we started. Kyle asked for a value, I said the machine could be valued, but wouldn’t be. I then modified the exercise (to avoid the excuse of no good pics) to move it to a hypothetical vac which was as Kyle described (to obviate the need of pics) and included plenty of hedge. It appears that Premise #1 and Premise #2 (as modified) have been proven. That seems to be where we are.
OFF THREAD STUFF: But I have an aside about “off thread.” I presume there are people who tune in to these discussions and take them at face value, contributing posts or not. That was always my approach. Then, a couple of times, during the “other club break-out” and the computer geek “break-in” adventures I started to become aware that there was a parallel universe of off-thread stuff.
Now, it makes sense, in any club, that people form relationships and communicate with select or limited groups off thread. That is the upside. The downside is that it also seems that is where people get in trouble.
I was only tuned “on thread” here but then people started providing me with a lot of ‘off thread’ input, goading, discouragement, encouragement or whatever. Yikes, there I was in that insidious parallel universe. I was given tips on personality clashes, motivation, etc. I was provided data from sources not permitted on this site. I was chastised by seniors. And it was most unclear what I could/should use and what was covered by some ethic discouraging on thread use. I would be given stuff that seemed clearly intended to be included by me “on thread” but in some cases I could not be certain of that, and then there was the quandary of identity disclosure vs. content disclosure. I chose to keep the identities undisclosed and use little of the data. (The above disclosure of an estimate given to a stranger is an example of data I chose to use for the obvious reason of its clear relevancy).
I think “off thread” can be a squirrely universe. There can be good data and some friendly chuckles; on the other hand, it can be an insidious, backstabbing world.
Y’all take care.
rocketwarrior
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2006
- Messages
- 522
Unavailable for your Questions
Ref. Post #16806, I will be out of the loop for a time but will answer all you posts when I again have access.
Anyway, BACK TO THE TOP!
Oops, wrong thread, Sorry, Charlie (smile).
Ref. Post #16806, I will be out of the loop for a time but will answer all you posts when I again have access.
Anyway, BACK TO THE TOP!
Oops, wrong thread, Sorry, Charlie (smile).
"Share and Enjoy" is, of course, the company motto of the hugely successful Sirius Cybernetics Corporation Complaints division, which now covers the major land masses of three medium sized planets and is the only part of the Corporation to have shown a consistent profit in recent years.
The lyrics to the company song are as follows:
Share and Enjoy
Share and Enjoy
Journey through life
With a plastic boy
Or Girl by your side
Let your pal be your guide
And when it breaks down
Or starts to annoy
Or grinds when it moves
And gives you no joy
Cos it's eaten your hat
Or had sex with your cat
Bled oil on your floor
Or ripped off your door
You get to the point
You can't stand any more
Bring it to us, we won't give a fig
We'll tell you, 'Go stick your head in a pig'.
with thanks to Douglas Adams
The lyrics to the company song are as follows:
Share and Enjoy
Share and Enjoy
Journey through life
With a plastic boy
Or Girl by your side
Let your pal be your guide
And when it breaks down
Or starts to annoy
Or grinds when it moves
And gives you no joy
Cos it's eaten your hat
Or had sex with your cat
Bled oil on your floor
Or ripped off your door
You get to the point
You can't stand any more
Bring it to us, we won't give a fig
We'll tell you, 'Go stick your head in a pig'.
with thanks to Douglas Adams
floor-a-matic
Well-known member
Green Canadian Compact
I've never seen a white/sea green Interstate-built PN; how rare are those? Or was this a custom-made job?
I've never seen a white/sea green Interstate-built PN; how rare are those? Or was this a custom-made job?
Good Lord. Why was this old thread full of trolling dredged up??
Clearly, a certain person was just trying to goad other people into getting all worked up of a non-resolvable issue. (And/or he was off his meds.)
I thought this topic had died a long ago.
Clearly, a certain person was just trying to goad other people into getting all worked up of a non-resolvable issue. (And/or he was off his meds.)
I thought this topic had died a long ago.
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