Horror stories!

[danielsand]

As I mentioned before, I am a "bit" OCD. Part of this is, I have to learn everything about a product, device, machine, or anything else I own. So I read. And I research.

This morning I got up at 4AM, and for two hours I was reading horror stories about the public's experience with Kirby! I am absolutely in "LOVE" with Kirby. I think they are great machines, and I own four of them. There is an attractive "for sale" add on Craigs for Sentria 2, and I wanted to read about its advantages over previous models, and make my mind up whether I should pick it up (it's dirt cheap, and it's not about the money).

Long story short,......I've read all bad things about Kirby "sales tactics", lies, scams, underpaid "employees", pressuring old and disabled people to sign the contract,.....all of it. I am disgusted! I like the machines, but what's going on out there, is despicable. Since the gate of my ranch is good 250 yards from the house, I never had the "pleasure" to be face to face with "Kirby Team". But if you read all these complaints, it'll make your head spin.

All posters there also complained about the 'quality" of the Sentria (or the lack of it), needing belts every month or so (and this from people that vacuum once a week!), smoking, burning, plastic breaking,......the works.

I decided to let this Sentria 2 go. But I wanted to ask you guys, what do you think about Kirby "sales tactic", and have you had similar experiences as those I've found?

 

[stricklybojack]

As i recall..

The company who makes Kirby vacuum among many other products and services, Scott Fetzer -which itself is now part of the Warren Buffett mega conglomerate Berkshire Hathaway -sells it's products only to the authorized dealers who are independent distribution entities who no doubt vary in quality. This keeps them, Berkshire> Scott Fetzer>Kirby, "an arm's length" distance from what you are talking about.

Nonetheless all of what you mention, plus more you haven't mentioned, is why many people should never open their door to DTD sales people. The sales tactics are advanced, so you should be as well or invite them to leave and save yourself the headache.

Before the roof caves in from former or current DTD salesmen, let me hastily add many people are very happy with their DTD buying experience, being savvy customers who knew what they were doing. Not everybody is ready, is all i am saying.
Like they say, "if you don't know who the dumb money in the room is, it's probably you.."[this post was last edited: 1/30/2015-15:24]

 

[gottahaveahoove]

I've heard all kinds of horror stories about many

companies. Not bashing, (do I bash)?
Although I'm not a "Kirby lover", I've had to use one or two in my lifetime. One being when I worked at a church. It was an enoemaous cathedral type. They had a Kirby "Omega". It wasn't my favorite machine, BUT, I can't say it gave me problems.
It is a shame how some DTD people do awful things, giving so many others a bad name. Our own Rob Shore, 'Zippy" worked for both Filterqueen and Rainbow. i can tell you; HE was/is as honest as they come. No "dirty" tactics ( sorry, had to use that pun) ever. He even did a "demos" (knowing a sale would never occur) in my home. It WAS great entertainment, I must add, to see Bill Wood's 1964 HOOVER Convertible model 70 (Delft Blue) take that brand new vacuum "to the cleaners".
Again, HAD to "pun".
Some DTD tactics are a reflection on the person, too, not always the company.
Car salesmen can be like that.
I NEVER buy a car the first day I see it. I tell the salesperson that. Then, when he asks, "What can I do to get you to buy this car today"?... I reply, "NOTHING". Some people just don't get it.
I hope Kirby doesn't tarnish its reputation. It HAS been around for 100 years now.

 

[kirbymodel2c]

Hi

<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">Daniel, Why you hear the horror stories you don't hear about the good sales people out there.</span>


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">When I worked for a big company when I was at college they always told us... "Do one good thing for someone they might tell one possibly two people if your lucky. Do one bad thing and they will probably tell 10 people."</span>


 


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">Also you have to remember if your mean to people they more than likely won't buy off you.</span>


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">In sales people buy from people they like.</span>


 


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">I've meet some really nice people in Kirby and some who was not so nice. This is the same for all big companies.</span>


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">Also remember Kirby is the biggest of the direct sales vacuum companies now still going.</span>


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">If you go looking for stories you will find them about Tristar,Filter Queen and Rainbow etc.</span>


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">Mind you if you look at sales jobs across the board you will find lots of horror stories.</span>


 


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;"><a name="start_28082.313788"></a>Alex Taber <a name="start_28082.313788"></a>'Caligula' on here use to be a <a name="start_28082.313788"></a>training manager for a Kirby office. He's a really nice guy
</span>


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">and can tell you what it's like. I also worked as a Kirby dealer. There are bad people, but there are lots of good guys also.</span>


 


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">James

</span>


 


 

 

[ronni]

Firstly, I have never owned or operated a Kirby Sentria 2, so I will decline comment on that.

Regarding sales tactics I can imagine that Kirby employs those who are unethical and relentless in order to make their livings--like all DTD and other commission-based companies. I am also certain that it and others in the sales industry manage remunerate those with integrity who are sensitive to prospective customers' situations and who sincerely want to help them gain or maintain healthy, safe, comfortable, and productive lifestyles through the purchase of their wares.

I can sympathize with those who work on commission, because they typically do not have base salaries on which to depend and may sometimes go below the line of decency out of desperation. My point is that "desperate times call for desperate measures"--at least in some persons' minds. I also sympathize with those who have been taken advantage of which is never right. Incidentally, I believe that Kirby, Aerus (Electrolux Corporation), Hoover, Rainbow, and others did provide their sales forces with base salaries back in the day; so reinstating them could provide a partial solution.

On the other hand sales tactics on both levels are influenced by managers and corporate executives through their company's protocol. As a result, an independent contractor or associate's training (or lack thereof) is reflective of a company's character or mission. One that operates ethically by being responsive to its customers' needs and concerns would: 1) personally educate its customers on proper usage and care of its products to minimize misuse, abuse, and neglect 2) ensure effective product testing before marketing products 3) provide adequate product warranties 4) willingly recall products with widespread deficiencies 5) implement remediation (if not ongoing training) or termination of those employees who do not work within its standards of decency and customer satisfaction.

In any event, each of us is personally motivated in different ways. For some it's all about their own success--no matter what the cost to relationships with others or what ethical or moral boundaries are crossed. For others such as Christians (like myself) the Bible teaches them to live ethically and morally by loving God foremost and others as themselves. It also inspires them to live by faith instead of sight--to depend on God to provide for their needs (not someone else's sacrifice). When they miss the mark they confess their sins and try to change for the better with God's help. But the goal remains constant.

So a company's or person's over-arching goal will bring about deception or honesty; wrong or right. injustice or justice, insensitivity or sensitivity, tragedy or remedy ...

With all of that said I would hope that those who have openly criticized a person, company, or institution would have had the decency to try to resolve the offense privately beforehand. Otherwise, they are also a part of the problem instead of being a part of the solution.

Lastly, do remember that there are always two sides to every situation; online reviews are typically one-sided and may even be fabricated at times.

 

[kirbyloverdan]

Wow Fred I love this paragraph

Very well said ...

"With all of that said I would hope that those who have openly criticized a person, company, or institution would have had the decency to try to resolve the offense privately beforehand. Otherwise, they are also a part of the problem instead of being a part of the solution"

Dan

 

[ronni]

Thanks, Dan. Glad you liked it.

 

[kirbyloverdan]

Fred you are so welcome

I have had that on my mind for years and could never put it into words but now they have been put to words by you and I really appreciate it .

Thanks again

Dan

 

[danielsand]

Thank you gentlemen. I fully get what you are saying. In every business there are good, and bad people, however.......

Many complaints (VERY many!) were directed toward, so called 'distributors', and not so many toward the company itself, or its product. It seems that there are too many "fly by night" distributors, that use unethical tactics (downright lies!), to get into the people's homes, and once there, employ high pressure sales, and in some cases insults and/or threats.

Resolving the issues before posting on the web, is all nice in saying, but many people claim that they were lied to regarding the return policy, attachments that were never delivered, and the "distributor" being out of business, by the time they made the call. Of course, the company distances itself from the distributors, and the consumers are left out in the cold.

Some people reported that the "salesmen" showed up smelling on liquor, some even said that the "demonstrator" was high on drugs, and asked the home owners if they have any to share!! Like I said before,.....I like the machines. I am VERY pleased with the way machines perform, and the weight of it (one other MAJOR complaint), is not an issue with me. I am also technical, and hooking up the attachments is not a problem (even tear the whole machine down, and fix what needs to be fixed). But these people are selling these machines to disabled/elderly people that can NOT even handle it. Some people like that reported that they signed the "papers" only to get rid of the "team", that invaded their homes till 10PM (!!!) in some cases.

IMO, a long standing (American!) company that has one of the best vacuum cleaners on the market, should concern itself VERY MUCH, to whom these "distributorships" are awarded, and who is out there treating THEIR customers like dirt.

I sympathize with DTD salesmen (it's a HARD way to make living!) and they have families to feed too, but Kirby as a company should be very careful who is out there in the field "representing" them.

 

[stricklybojack]

Danielsand,

I agree with the above.
I also agree with ronni and Kirby Dan.

 

[smow69]

I also agree

we had a rainbow sales rep, come to our home. He was drunk and passed out on our floor while he was trying to put the machine together. Not very profesional but its not the companys fault. Its the distributer for not checking out the sales staffs backgrounds better.We had to call the distributer and have the owner come get this guy he was in his late 40s early 50,s so he knew better.They said he was let go.who knows but it was a very awkward situation.

 

[ralph123]

Feel free to let the creepy salespeople in your house,

but I won't be inviting them in. My time is far too valuable to be spent listening to their lies and deceptions. Nor do I want to be insulted by an idiot distributor who's mad that I'm not going to give him a huge payout for his overpriced vacuum. If you really want a DTD brand there are much better ways to buy them. It's far better to go to an independent store to shop. They aren't there because they are concerned with your needs. They are there to convince you to buy something you don't want or need. If I wanted to see their product demonstrated, I go to their shop. The Rainbow people are especially bad with the deception that you've won a prize - the Rainmate, but you can only have it if you listen to a 2.5-4 hour demonstration. Not to mention that they'll try to get names, addresses, and phone numbers of of your friends. Just say no to DTD salespersons.

 

[tolivac]

Kirby Sentria 1,2-Have these machines no problems with breaking plastic,smoking or belts going bad in a month.Sounds like the customer wasn't properly shown how to use and care for their new cleaning system.Kirby is the best carpet cleaner I have -then Tandem airs,Royal,Sanitaires.
Lets again say as some have above ALL DTD products have been marred by bad salesmen.Yes,remember when the salesman was an EMPLOYEE of the company he represented-NOT a contractor.When they were employees there was better training and control.Remember if you buy your DTD brand machine from another source other than the authorized salesperson-the unit has NO warrantee.The only warrantee if any,may be from who sold it to you-if it was a vacuum store they usually have a warrantee of some sort on recent used,DTD vacuums they get as trades.My other Sentria is warranted-if it has problems-the place I bought it from will take care of it.
Call me strange:I often ENJOY a good product demo!And I have sold TriStar/Compact with another man.Was kinda fun.Like Kirby guys there are TirStar people-usually women-they start writing the check for the machine as you unpack it and set it up.You then just show them the differences from their old TriStar.And you might-just might get their machine for your collection-these are usually well cared for adn complete.The Raleigh TriStar dealer has a large collection of TriStar/Compact machines.
Rainbow is a fine machine-but don't like the "name game" of their schemes.Kirby,TriStar,Filter Queen have gone to computer referrals.Just put down on their website in the section that you want a demo.This is better for all.And on the Rainbow you can't buy those other accesseries-they are "awarded" to you in the name thing.What if you CAN'T come up with 30 names for their thing??You don't get the FLoormate or whatever.

 

[dysonman1]

The Kirby Company has no control over who is hired to be a salesman. In all honesty, the Factory Distributor buys the machines with certified funds at the public warehouse, then either sells it to an 'area distributor' (who also has a sales office) or he signs the machine out to one of his salesmen.

The salesmen are hired on Monday, but are not told what they are selling. Only that they are hired for 'display of a household appliance'. On Tuesday, they are told it's Kirby and told how much money they "can" make. About half the salesmen hired on Monday don't show up on Wednesday, after finding out it's "Kirby".

On Wednesday and Thursday, the new 'salesmen' are taught the basic demo, and are asked to set up "practice" demos with their friends and family. On Friday, they spend half the day with the training manager, before beings allowed to sign out a machine and begin their practice demos. The salesman must call in before starting, after getting to the home. He must call into the office at the end too.

The Practice Demos are actually designed to get two or three sales out of the new salesman's family and friends. When the new salesman comes in on Monday for the morning meeting, they all clap and praise him for his good sales job. Most of the new salesmen quit sometime during their second week, when they have to demonstrate to people they don't know.

Many ride in vans with other salesmen and a 'manager'. The manager goes to the doors in neighborhoods and tries to "knock them in" (knock on doors and ask to be allowed to shampoo one room of carpet free). The van crews are notorious for smoking pot and drinking while in the van (You Tube has some great videos of this).

Once all the salesmen are in the homes, the manager rides around until he sees the Kirby box on the front porch. This means its time for him to come in and try to strong arm to 'close the deal'. After all, no one gets paid if no one buys. The strong arm tactics are very heinous.

There are just two jobs the salesman must do. Get into the home. And make the prospect unhappy with their present vacuum. Very very few people "shop" for a Kirby. Virtually everyone who buys one new, didn't wake up in the morning thinking "I'm going to buy a Kirby today".

The Kirby Company makes about a thousand machines per day in Cleveland. So about a thousand people per day will be conned into buying one. I say 'conned' because so much of the Demonstration is based on tricking people. "He who goes first...loses" is the name of the demonstration used by all Kirby salesmen to show the dirt you old vacuum is 'leaving' in the carpet. Complete trickery.

Kirby cannot stop the door to door sales of their machines, as they wouldn't sell a thousand per day if the Kirby were at Wal-Mart next to the Sharks. Virtually no one would buy a Kirby over a modern vacuum, left to their own devices. I've never seen another brand of vacuum that is so universally bad mouthed by the owners. I talk to hundreds of people, the general public, every week. The Kirby is always mentioned, as they are all around the Museum. In five years, I haven't had ONE person tell me they love their Kirby. Almost everyone, universally, hates it.

 

[kirbymodel2c]

Allot of

<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">what Tom describes works the same for all the door to door vac companies including Rainbow.</span>


 


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">Here is a look at a Tristar demo that Tristar show to it's dealers as a training video.</span>


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">It makes interesting viewing. </span>


 


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">James

</span>


 

 

[kirbymodel2c]

Here's a

"Rainbow" training session....


 





 


James

 

[danielsand]

Re: Replay #13 Dysonman

I agree with everything you said, and since I owned two car dealerships in the past (new, and used), and worked as an executive for a nation wide advertising company for a while, I came across much of what you are saying. The "system" of "training", and the structure of the "sales team" (basically MLM!! aka "pyramid"), is the same.

The only thing I don't agree is "everyone hates their Kirbys". I don't. I also know (personally) few people that don't. Hooking up attachments is time consuming,.....yup, it sure is. It's heavy,......for some less athletic people, definitely is. But after years of using "disposable", plastic vacuums, I REALLY like the performance. The "antiquated" look of it, appeals to me.

I can't help it, I like them, despite the shady sales tactics, desperate ex-cons on drugs peddling them, and "trickery".

 

[bisonian]

Info Update

Ralph Schey hasn't been the head of Scott-Fetzer in 15 years. He retired in 2000, and died in 2011.

 

[sptyks]

Here's my 2 cents worth...

Daniel, I own 5 Kirbys and I love them all. One of them is a Sentria and I can assure you it is a very well made machine. I replace the belt once a year even though it is not fully worn out.


 


I take Dysonman's comments with a grain of salt. He works for Tacony, another vacuum Company which makes the Simplicity and Riccar line of vacuums and is located in St. James MO. He, therefore is prejudiced against Kirby.


 


There are many Kirby distributorships that have been in business for many years. It's Those distributors who hire shady individuals as salesmen who have closed up shop in a couple of months because of shady, tacky and dishonest sales tactics. Those are the people who give Kirby a bad name. The Kirby is a very complex machine and therefore must be demonstrated in the prospective buyer's home since a proper demonstration can take 2-3 hours. There's no way it can be demonstrated properly in a vacuum shop.