Hoover Senior 612 Help!

[jake1234]

Hi everyone,

So I own a Hoover senior 612 from 1949. I beileve it was sold in the us earlier in 1940 as the model 29. Anyway, mine was in horrible condition so I thought I would strip it and refurb it. It was purely a cosmetic thing really as it ran beautifully but just looked awful. So I strip it and re-paint it fine, then since its apart I think to myself whilst I am in here I will have the motor apart and grease it and blow all the dust out, which I did, no problem. So after all that I think thats a job well done, lets put it back together, which I did. After my hard work I plugged it in to test it abd to my horror it was unbearably loud and the motor sounded slow, and there was a loud hum coming from it to. My natural reaction was to hit the emergency stop for the workshop sockets which cut the power to it and that was that. I have since taken the motor apart again to see if I have done anything stupid which I havnt and when I plugged it in again the same thing happened for a second time. When taking it apart do you think I have been too rough with the armature? The loud hum makes me think maybe its starting to burn out and I have wrecked it. I checked the carbon brushes too which were lovely and clean before but now they are all scored and pitted so there is definitly something not right there either. Could something be shorting out do you think? Or maybe I have no wired the motor back up correctly? The headlight came on far too bright aswell so maybe the motor isnt taking as much current as it should. I love my 612 so any help and advice on whats wrong and how to wire the motor up properly would be appreciated. I have worked on the later senior 652 series but never the 612 cleaners as they are a but older so just that bit rarer than the 652s.

Thanks in advance for any hints or tips you might have.

Jake

 

[madman]

Is the headlight low voltage, like 12v? If so, you must have wired it wrong. If not, there's really no reason the light would burn too brightly.

Ensure the brushes move easily, and that they are installed in the correct orientation.

 

[jake1234]

Senior 612

No the headlight is normal voltage, 240v where I live. I thought it maybe burning too brightly because the motor isnt using as much current as it should because its turning slow. I wouldnt mind if it was burning out naturally, its from 1949 and is well past its expected life span and things only last so long, what has really hacked me off was the fact it was running beautifully until I started messing with the damn thing! I am supposed to be able to restore vacuum cleaners to a good standard but in this case I just seem to have wrecked it.

 

[electroluxxxx]

you might want to post a couple of pics of how it is wired

 

[elecroluxmodel1]

Inspect all parts of the motor. Replace whatever parts you have to. If you have a multimeter, do tests on the armature such as the bar to bar test.

 

[jake1234]

Wiring

Here is a few pictures of the wires. It was wired properly until a few days ago when it stopped working after I had tampered with it but after that I started trying different ways to wire it and it got to the point were I didnt know what was what anymore. A few of the wires are loose and a few are wired up (probably incorrectly) the neutral is just jammed in the back carbon brush for test purposes it isnt left like that!

 

[jake1234]

Headlight

I took the wires out from the headlight as whilst I was desperatly trying to get the motor to work I thought if I remove the headlight wires its just one less thing to go wrong. Sorry if its not easy to tell from the pics but the wires are everywhere. I have done many seniors but not a 612, I think its safe to say this one has been a cock up. At least the paint re-spray on the handle came out alright!

 

[watsonw]

COMMUTATOR.

Hello Jake,

On inspection of the commutator did you notice that where the carbons touched was there a very distinct track worn? I had a very smooth running 652 which I took apart for full servicing and noticed the comm had a deep dip where the carbons had been running; carbons very worn down but smooth. I reassembled the motor, run it with a commutator stick just to insure good re-bedding of the carbons; the sparks tracked all around the comm; motor ran much louder and sounded rough. Fitted new carbons, employing comm stick_ even worse!!Conclusion : if you fully overall a motor that has been over run/used over many years said overall might turn out to be a disturbance which is just to much for the ageing circuit!!

I understand you annoyance with yourself. Sadly we win some but lose some!

Regards, Walter, SHROPSHIRE.

 

[jake1234]

Walter

I did think that myself, it seemed too much of a coincidence that it just stopped running properly as soon as I serviced it. I thought maybe that it was just on its way out anyway and me disturbing it made it fail quicker. I have bought a new armature anyway so we will have to see if that helps. I just wish I hadnt tried to service it now. I think the old saying applies here, if its not broken dont try to fix it!

 

[madman]

As a general rule, universal motors are wired thusly:

Line -> field coil #1 -> brush to commutator to brush -> field coil #2 -> Neutral

Ensure the brushes move freely in their holders and that they are not installed 90 degrees off.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/99/0f/80/...d2b34059a--universal-motor-electric-motor.jpg

 

[jake1234]

Madman

So do you put the neutral on the last field coil wire then? Sorry to seem so dumb but I have just totally lost it and have got myself so confused with it.

 

[watsonw]

Hello Jake,

Good luck with the new armature. How's the condition of the top sleeve bearing?

Regards, Walter.

 

[madman]

Yes, basically. One wire from field coil #1 should be line, the other should be a brush. And one wire from field coil #2 should be neutral, and the other a brush. The picture I linked in my previous reply should really explain it much better than I can in words. As long as it's wired this way, it will work, however, the rotation can be changed if you mix the coils up. Not a big deal. You know, I wonder if that's what you did the first time, and it didn't run well because the brushes were effectively 'in backwards.'

Bear in mind this is only a general description, I'm not sure if this particular machine is wired differently. However, as long as it's a series wired motor, you could, in theory, wire it any which way as long as all coils are in series, and it would work.

 

[jake1234]

Advice

Thanks everyone for your advice and tips on what could be wrong. I dont think it was wired backwards as if all this does is make it run on reverse it was doing more than that. Walter I think the top sleeve bearing is fine aswell, by the amount of smoke that is now coming out of it I can only think it must be the armature as faulty carbon brushes and bearings wouldnt make it smoke, and I don't think a faulty field coil would make it smoke either. I will let you all know the results when the new armature gets here but I think that should be the end of it then. Thanks again for all the help.

Jake

 

[jake1234]

Oh dear

I have put a new armature in and its still awful, so it must be something I have done. After its been on only for a few seconds the field coil gets VERY hot so maybe I have wired that wrong or the whole thing is wired wrong. If someone can post a picture of their 612 with the hood off I am sure that would help me.

Many thanks, Jake

 

[madman]

Is there a remote possibility you physically damaged the field coil when you took it apart? Sounds like the field is internally shorted. If you got a multimeter, you can ohm each field coil and compare one to the other.

 

[lesinutah]

Coil

It's the field coil. They put balancers on field coils. If you cleaned the vacuum you probably took off the balancer piece as you thought it doesn't look like it should be there.
I'd call it more than a hunch. I'd stop messing around with the wiring. Replace the field coil. If you don't and I'm correct you will basically catch the vacuum on fire and it will melt the motor. The flames are blue purple and the copper is dark green.
Make sure the field coil is for the armature you have.
This sounds exactly what happened to me with 2 dual sanitronic 80s. If I knew it was the field coil I would have 2 sweet machines.

 

[jake1234]

Its working!

Thanks les, I probably do not a new field coil as it does seem like its seen better days but that wasnt the cause of the isuue. I am so embarrased to admit this, but someone sent me a picture of their 612 with the hood off and I had wired mine totally wrong. And I mean totally. I hadn't done one thing right. I had shorted everything out I think. I hadn't even wired the headlight right and thats why it was brighter than it should of been. After re wiring it it is now fine and works well. It still sounds slightly rough but I expect thats because I put new carbon brushes in it. I am now going to put it outside and let it run for 20 minutes to sort itself out but as I said it more or less sounds perfect. Thanks everyone for your help I am glad I got there in the end. The power of the internet eh? I wouldn't of been able to do it without your help. Thanks so much guys.