Hepa bags for Tristar
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IECompactfann
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- Joined
- Jul 27, 2019
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kirbylux77
Thats whati meant to say all layers should be use .
Whit only the hepa material the motor suction will pull it towards the fan and its no good .
Like Elelctrolux USA Canada pre motor filters are there fora reason . To catch the fine dust
so yes the manual is correct 4 layers of filtration are need to make the Compact Tristar work as it should heck same whit Filter Queen (cones ect 0
Would you run a car whit no oil fitler ???
Same whit a vacuum all filter must be there case close .
Electrolux on the vintage model ZB 86 88 89 all had a cage for the paper bag 4 layer bag at that and a post motor fitler before the blower port and work amazing so ya ./
I will continue to sya the manual of 1979 originakl comapct book let is right whit the 4 layers needed .Just the hepa bag is never suficiant sure you get air flow on ya lil machine there but .........
Fine dust in a comapct motor bearing is a major no no .
Even o nthe tristar usa /canada site it mention all 4 layers are needed to work properly lets leave it at that period .
As for me my c9 will have all 4 layers period ty god bless no harm meant here .my 2 cents but y a .
Thats whati meant to say all layers should be use .
Whit only the hepa material the motor suction will pull it towards the fan and its no good .
Like Elelctrolux USA Canada pre motor filters are there fora reason . To catch the fine dust
so yes the manual is correct 4 layers of filtration are need to make the Compact Tristar work as it should heck same whit Filter Queen (cones ect 0
Would you run a car whit no oil fitler ???
Same whit a vacuum all filter must be there case close .
Electrolux on the vintage model ZB 86 88 89 all had a cage for the paper bag 4 layer bag at that and a post motor fitler before the blower port and work amazing so ya ./
I will continue to sya the manual of 1979 originakl comapct book let is right whit the 4 layers needed .Just the hepa bag is never suficiant sure you get air flow on ya lil machine there but .........
Fine dust in a comapct motor bearing is a major no no .
Even o nthe tristar usa /canada site it mention all 4 layers are needed to work properly lets leave it at that period .
As for me my c9 will have all 4 layers period ty god bless no harm meant here .my 2 cents but y a .
vaclab
Well-known member
I've Posted My Last Video For The Naysayers
I will not allow Rob's post to go unanswered but this is it. I will post no more on this subject and everyone is free to spread whatever misinformation and F.U.D. they wish without any further comment. Unfortunately Rob's post was long and so will be my final series of rebuttals.
1st Rebuttal:
You made a good point in your final video. The Kevlar Cloth bag wouldn't be necessary if using the TriStar HEPA Cloth bag, as the HEPA Cloth material would capture all the dust & keep the Kevlar Cloth bag clean. BUT, using just the rubber seal from the Kevlar Cloth bag is still a bad idea.
*** How many times must I prove this to be false? You’re simply wrong here. Accept it and move on.***
2nd Rebuttal:
First of all, go ahead & try closing the bag door on your TriStar with just the Kevlar Cloth bag in place with no paper bag. Notice how the door won't latch firmly down?
*** Not in my case. While I only have two TriStars, they clamp perfectly with either the high filtration bag or the older “pants/shirt” material bag.***
It's because you need the cardboard seal from the paper bag to make a complete seal.
*** The only thing you need for a good seal is clamping pressure. And let’s not forget that after 10,000 open/close cycles and decades of aging/abuse, some may need to adjust the main clamp very slightly, which is easy to do with pliers.***
It's how Interstate Engineering intended the vacuum to be used.
*** I have no issue with this statement. However, I have discovered another highly viable method. It's called a performance upgrade.***
The only way you could use a Compact or TriStar with just the Kevlar Cloth bag as a shakeout bag is if you saved a cardboard bag collar, put it on top & close the bag door.
*** Again, false information here. Mine clamps fine. If it leaked in any way, it would have been found during my extensive suction and airflow testing. See above comment.***
In addition, the metal rim on the Kevlar Cloth bag & rubber seal actually support the cardboard bag collar so it cannot collapse & leak dust & dirt.
*** So I did an experiment where I removed the metal ring and just used the Allergen bag by itself. Not only did the bag seal perfectly well in the CXL, but I even let the bag suck itself into the cavity with the lid open and machine running. Guess what? No part of the seal went into the machine at any time. Again, more F.U.D.***
I will not allow Rob's post to go unanswered but this is it. I will post no more on this subject and everyone is free to spread whatever misinformation and F.U.D. they wish without any further comment. Unfortunately Rob's post was long and so will be my final series of rebuttals.
1st Rebuttal:
You made a good point in your final video. The Kevlar Cloth bag wouldn't be necessary if using the TriStar HEPA Cloth bag, as the HEPA Cloth material would capture all the dust & keep the Kevlar Cloth bag clean. BUT, using just the rubber seal from the Kevlar Cloth bag is still a bad idea.
*** How many times must I prove this to be false? You’re simply wrong here. Accept it and move on.***
2nd Rebuttal:
First of all, go ahead & try closing the bag door on your TriStar with just the Kevlar Cloth bag in place with no paper bag. Notice how the door won't latch firmly down?
*** Not in my case. While I only have two TriStars, they clamp perfectly with either the high filtration bag or the older “pants/shirt” material bag.***
It's because you need the cardboard seal from the paper bag to make a complete seal.
*** The only thing you need for a good seal is clamping pressure. And let’s not forget that after 10,000 open/close cycles and decades of aging/abuse, some may need to adjust the main clamp very slightly, which is easy to do with pliers.***
It's how Interstate Engineering intended the vacuum to be used.
*** I have no issue with this statement. However, I have discovered another highly viable method. It's called a performance upgrade.***
The only way you could use a Compact or TriStar with just the Kevlar Cloth bag as a shakeout bag is if you saved a cardboard bag collar, put it on top & close the bag door.
*** Again, false information here. Mine clamps fine. If it leaked in any way, it would have been found during my extensive suction and airflow testing. See above comment.***
In addition, the metal rim on the Kevlar Cloth bag & rubber seal actually support the cardboard bag collar so it cannot collapse & leak dust & dirt.
*** So I did an experiment where I removed the metal ring and just used the Allergen bag by itself. Not only did the bag seal perfectly well in the CXL, but I even let the bag suck itself into the cavity with the lid open and machine running. Guess what? No part of the seal went into the machine at any time. Again, more F.U.D.***
vaclab
Well-known member
Rebuttals Part 2
3 Rebuttal:
As far as your relying on the cardboard bag collar & the rubber seal to stay in place & not move or leak dirt, that would be foolish. Watch your "TriStar CXL Baking Soda in the Carpet Test", at 7:54 in the video, as well as in your last video, see how cracked up & broken your cardboard bag collar is. That cardboard bag collar is INFERIOR compared to the bag designs that the TriStar copycats use. Patriot, Airstorm & the bag for the original green Vortech Force use a much wider cardboard bag collar compared to the TriStar cardboard bag collar, & Miracle Mate made it a complete cardboard bag top. Vortech Force also later copied Miracle Mate's bag design for their latest XR3000 model. You might also be interested to know that Home Care Industries, under the various names they sold under & other names they manufactured for, made a generic TriStar paper bag with the same style wide bag collar Vortech Force originally used, which is still available today. So, Bill, even TriStar's competitors knew & considered the cardboard bag collar to be flawed & fixed that part of the design when they copied the TriStar. You're asking for trouble relying on a rubber seal & that flimsy cardboard bag collar that easily cracks & breaks to make a complete seal, & more importantly, stay in place & not leak dirt.
***One of your most ridiculous comments yet. Did you somehow miss that the bag I was using was my test bag? Do you know how many install/uninstall/experimentation cycles this poor bag went through? Probably at least 50. No cardboard collar would survive that without cracking/creasing. Of course, I also reversed the bag and blew it out many times during testing as I do with all of my HEPA bags. And guess what? No issues with the bag at all. That bag (and its cracked collar) doesn’t move whatsoever, but during a typical single usage cycle, no cracking occurs. More F.U.D.***
4 Rebuttal:
As for your claims in the video "TriStar - Will Removing The Pre-Motor Filter Mean The Bag Sucks Into The Motor?" - you claim that the pre-motor filter is no longer required & the bag couldn't be drawn into the motor? Well, that test you did was with a EMPTY HEPA Cloth bag. Furthermore, the Kevlar Cloth bag wasn't in place along with the pre-motor filter to hold it back from being sucked into the motor. Try performing that test again with a FULL bag & I'm pretty sure the TriStar will pull that bag at least a little bit towards the motor. Protecting the motor from dust particles isn't the only reason Interstate Engineering intended for that pre-motor filter to be used.
***Once again, since you don’t perform experiments, you made another accusation that amounts to additional F.U.D. The effect you describe simply doesn’t happen because all three bags I have suck straight down, not side to side, with several pounds of force. If you look at the video closely, you might be able to detect the bag being rather forcefully stretched only downward and not side to side.
I had some fun placing pounds of material (and dishcloths) in the HEPA bag with the lid OPEN and the bag sides remained taught enough that one would have to go to extreme lengths to even move it one inch closer to the motor.***
3 Rebuttal:
As far as your relying on the cardboard bag collar & the rubber seal to stay in place & not move or leak dirt, that would be foolish. Watch your "TriStar CXL Baking Soda in the Carpet Test", at 7:54 in the video, as well as in your last video, see how cracked up & broken your cardboard bag collar is. That cardboard bag collar is INFERIOR compared to the bag designs that the TriStar copycats use. Patriot, Airstorm & the bag for the original green Vortech Force use a much wider cardboard bag collar compared to the TriStar cardboard bag collar, & Miracle Mate made it a complete cardboard bag top. Vortech Force also later copied Miracle Mate's bag design for their latest XR3000 model. You might also be interested to know that Home Care Industries, under the various names they sold under & other names they manufactured for, made a generic TriStar paper bag with the same style wide bag collar Vortech Force originally used, which is still available today. So, Bill, even TriStar's competitors knew & considered the cardboard bag collar to be flawed & fixed that part of the design when they copied the TriStar. You're asking for trouble relying on a rubber seal & that flimsy cardboard bag collar that easily cracks & breaks to make a complete seal, & more importantly, stay in place & not leak dirt.
***One of your most ridiculous comments yet. Did you somehow miss that the bag I was using was my test bag? Do you know how many install/uninstall/experimentation cycles this poor bag went through? Probably at least 50. No cardboard collar would survive that without cracking/creasing. Of course, I also reversed the bag and blew it out many times during testing as I do with all of my HEPA bags. And guess what? No issues with the bag at all. That bag (and its cracked collar) doesn’t move whatsoever, but during a typical single usage cycle, no cracking occurs. More F.U.D.***
4 Rebuttal:
As for your claims in the video "TriStar - Will Removing The Pre-Motor Filter Mean The Bag Sucks Into The Motor?" - you claim that the pre-motor filter is no longer required & the bag couldn't be drawn into the motor? Well, that test you did was with a EMPTY HEPA Cloth bag. Furthermore, the Kevlar Cloth bag wasn't in place along with the pre-motor filter to hold it back from being sucked into the motor. Try performing that test again with a FULL bag & I'm pretty sure the TriStar will pull that bag at least a little bit towards the motor. Protecting the motor from dust particles isn't the only reason Interstate Engineering intended for that pre-motor filter to be used.
***Once again, since you don’t perform experiments, you made another accusation that amounts to additional F.U.D. The effect you describe simply doesn’t happen because all three bags I have suck straight down, not side to side, with several pounds of force. If you look at the video closely, you might be able to detect the bag being rather forcefully stretched only downward and not side to side.
I had some fun placing pounds of material (and dishcloths) in the HEPA bag with the lid OPEN and the bag sides remained taught enough that one would have to go to extreme lengths to even move it one inch closer to the motor.***
vaclab
Well-known member
Rebuttals Part 3
5th Rebuttal:
If you insist on using the HEPA Cloth bag by itself in your TriStar, I would suggest using it with the pre-motor filter & using the metal ring in your first video with the rubber seal to support the cardboard bag collar & greatly reduce the chance of the cardboard bag collar giving way, leaking dirt & dust & causing a issue.
***Oh I’ve already plainly said multiple times that the single HEPA bag is the only way I’m using both my TriStars. And your “rubber seal/metal ring/cardboard HEPA bag” was the very first method I tried. So much clamping pressure, I almost broke the clamp! So a big NO-GO on that unless I want to un-bend the clamp lip, which of course is quite counterproductive. Before suggestion things, please try them out for yourself before making any recommendations.***
6th Rebuttal:
And by the way, in your last video, "Compact/TriStar Single HEPA Bags Usage: High Performance Versus Safety", make sure in the future you use CORRECT information when making statements about Electrolux. You stated that Electrolux canisters never used a post-motor filter for decades? Well, that's true for AMERICAN canisters, Bill, NOT the Canadian canisters! Electrolux Canada, right from the very start with the first canister imported from Sweden in the early 1930's, has ALWAYS had a post-motor filter. Furthermore, it was only from 1955 to about 1985-86 or so that Electrolux USA did not have post-motor filters on their canisters. That changed with the introduction of the Electrolux 2100, a design that started with the AP100 in 1973 in Canada. You also stated in that video that Electrolux never used a pre-motor filter & only the bag? BUT, you conveniently forgot that ALL Electrolux canisters in America & Canada have a screen, whether plastic or metal, built into the back of the plastic bag chamber that ensures the bag does not come into contact with the motor & any large particles are caught. And before this, all metal bodied canisters that used paper bags had either a metal or plastic perforated bag chamber that ensured the bag did not come into contact with the motor. So, through design, that DID act as a pre-motor filter. Also note that, for about 10 years now, Aerus does make a charcoal pre-motor filter for all Aerus & Electrolux canisters that use Style C bags for canisters with the plastic bag chamber.
***Once again, you twist things to fit your narrative with irrelevant information. Being a U.S. American, I’m well aware of the wide variations of machines that are available in other countries and that is a completely useless point. The fact that U.S. Electrolux made a bazillion (highly technical term there…) of SINGLE filter machines for decades was the point I emphasized enthusiastically. If Electrolux had never made SINGLE filter machines, then I wouldn’t have been able to make parallel arguments as I did in the videos.
As far as the screen goes, you’re twisting what a “filter” is typically defined as in all my videos. Namely, an object that can be purchased and is user replaceable. The permanent screen doesn’t fit that description, nor understanding especially since it’s not removable.***
5th Rebuttal:
If you insist on using the HEPA Cloth bag by itself in your TriStar, I would suggest using it with the pre-motor filter & using the metal ring in your first video with the rubber seal to support the cardboard bag collar & greatly reduce the chance of the cardboard bag collar giving way, leaking dirt & dust & causing a issue.
***Oh I’ve already plainly said multiple times that the single HEPA bag is the only way I’m using both my TriStars. And your “rubber seal/metal ring/cardboard HEPA bag” was the very first method I tried. So much clamping pressure, I almost broke the clamp! So a big NO-GO on that unless I want to un-bend the clamp lip, which of course is quite counterproductive. Before suggestion things, please try them out for yourself before making any recommendations.***
6th Rebuttal:
And by the way, in your last video, "Compact/TriStar Single HEPA Bags Usage: High Performance Versus Safety", make sure in the future you use CORRECT information when making statements about Electrolux. You stated that Electrolux canisters never used a post-motor filter for decades? Well, that's true for AMERICAN canisters, Bill, NOT the Canadian canisters! Electrolux Canada, right from the very start with the first canister imported from Sweden in the early 1930's, has ALWAYS had a post-motor filter. Furthermore, it was only from 1955 to about 1985-86 or so that Electrolux USA did not have post-motor filters on their canisters. That changed with the introduction of the Electrolux 2100, a design that started with the AP100 in 1973 in Canada. You also stated in that video that Electrolux never used a pre-motor filter & only the bag? BUT, you conveniently forgot that ALL Electrolux canisters in America & Canada have a screen, whether plastic or metal, built into the back of the plastic bag chamber that ensures the bag does not come into contact with the motor & any large particles are caught. And before this, all metal bodied canisters that used paper bags had either a metal or plastic perforated bag chamber that ensured the bag did not come into contact with the motor. So, through design, that DID act as a pre-motor filter. Also note that, for about 10 years now, Aerus does make a charcoal pre-motor filter for all Aerus & Electrolux canisters that use Style C bags for canisters with the plastic bag chamber.
***Once again, you twist things to fit your narrative with irrelevant information. Being a U.S. American, I’m well aware of the wide variations of machines that are available in other countries and that is a completely useless point. The fact that U.S. Electrolux made a bazillion (highly technical term there…) of SINGLE filter machines for decades was the point I emphasized enthusiastically. If Electrolux had never made SINGLE filter machines, then I wouldn’t have been able to make parallel arguments as I did in the videos.
As far as the screen goes, you’re twisting what a “filter” is typically defined as in all my videos. Namely, an object that can be purchased and is user replaceable. The permanent screen doesn’t fit that description, nor understanding especially since it’s not removable.***
vaclab
Well-known member
Final Rebuttals AND Video Proof
7th Rebuttal:
Kenny & Devin - You guys are right, using a Simplicity Freedom upright bag with a bag topper in a AirWay or Vita Vac is indeed a bag modification. The difference here between it, a Electrolux & the TriStar with this bag modification, though, is the AirWay & Electrolux both have bag cages that support not only the bag, but the bag collar. As far as I'm concerned, that's the one HUGE mistake Bill has made using just the TriStar bag with the rubber seal.
***A “huge mistake” that I’ve conclusively proven works and you haven’t. Again, pure F.U.D. I always find it quite humorous that some people shout and holler that they are correct about something even when demonstrable proof is put right in front of their own eyes. Never ceases to amaze me.
Maybe I’ll produce yet another dull and boring video proving/showing some of Rob’s concerns hold no water. Oh wait, I just did…***
Bill
7th Rebuttal:
Kenny & Devin - You guys are right, using a Simplicity Freedom upright bag with a bag topper in a AirWay or Vita Vac is indeed a bag modification. The difference here between it, a Electrolux & the TriStar with this bag modification, though, is the AirWay & Electrolux both have bag cages that support not only the bag, but the bag collar. As far as I'm concerned, that's the one HUGE mistake Bill has made using just the TriStar bag with the rubber seal.
***A “huge mistake” that I’ve conclusively proven works and you haven’t. Again, pure F.U.D. I always find it quite humorous that some people shout and holler that they are correct about something even when demonstrable proof is put right in front of their own eyes. Never ceases to amaze me.
Maybe I’ll produce yet another dull and boring video proving/showing some of Rob’s concerns hold no water. Oh wait, I just did…***
Bill
luxflairguy
Well-known member
IECompactfann aka Antione! YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE POSTING ON MULTIPLE NAMES ON Vacuumland! You are being reported to the Webmaster!!!
