Hepa bags. A gimmick?

[panasonicvac]

Keith

There are some bypass units like Cyclovac where not only they use suppressors to help keep the noise down but they can also catch some carbon dust that would leak out of the brushes, they also use a carbon filter to catch whatever else it would collect. I don't see heat being a huge issue with bypass motors, especially since they're designed to help cool the motor down. And there are some bypass motors like the MD SilentMaster S900r/r2 (Dual Motor) where all of the exhaust exits out of the motor completely, also more powerful and just as quiet as my uncle's MD Flo-Master F650t. I don't believe all thru-flow motors are quieter than bypass motors. But yes they are inexpensive to replace.

The Eureka is the unit we have over in our storage shed, it doesn't get used much. If someone used that vacuum while the exhaust is blocked, they would for sure stress the motor and possibly melt some of the piping. I could put a vent cap in if I wanted to but I have found that they can break overtime so it wouldn't really make much sense for me to put one in if we're not going to use it very much.

And there are few companies like Sebo that sells cloth bags using some recycle material, I also don't see how that is not environmental friendly.

 

[gregvacs28]

Each to their own of course.


 


A cloth bag is going to need cleaning and emptying which is a mess.


 


Paper bags just pull out carefully and install a new one, then throw the full bag.  Takes 2 minutes with no messy dust floating everywhere and no cleaning anything.


 


With single port paper bags being only $2-3 each, a typical user could change out every 3 months at a cost of only $1 a month.  


 


Not letting it fill all the way up leaves the exposed paper to act as a fine filter and retain suction.


 


I can only imagine the cost of those  MD 3 port hepa bags. Hepa bags are woven plastic and strong material.  They don't decompose easily.  I'd feel guilty using them.  

 

[mikanic]

Microfibre bags are brilliant.

Of course, as someone mentioned, paper is better for the planet, but personally I don't really trust paper bags because of how weak they can be and how dust can easily block the suction. It's sad though because I actually personally care about the dying planet and it would be nice if paper bags could actually mechanically work. You can use them but sadly they don't help the motor. Tell me if I'm wrong because I'm not a total expert.

I don't know if HEPA bag is a different term or anything, but if it's the same as a microfibre bag then fair enough But I've figured out, on one of my vacuums, the Gtech Pro 2, when you take the bag out to take a look, the only thing you have to be wary of is dirt coming back out because you're taking some of the suction path with it (hope you get what I'm saying). So I block it off with my hand and therefore it goes onto me rather than into the air.

For a Hoover Purepower you can get a set of '4 your home' microfibre bags that cost £6, compare that to a genuine H20 paper bag that costs up to £7/8 depending on order choice (both are prices on Amazon UK). Strange really to say that you'd expect higher qualities to cost more, but it'll be more likely due to the fact that the '4 your home' bags aren't genuine but work anyway.

 

[jo]

Wow a lot of posts here

Let’s also note that a self sealing bag, appear or hepa...is no doubt far better than a cloth shake out bag or a bagless dyson or any bagless where the dirt needs to be dumped. Dumping any time of cloth bag or bin creates a toxic dust cloud and wearing a dust mask isn’t eliminating the dangers as it often settles on your clothes and exposed skin immediately.

The idea of a vacuum is to capture the dirt and dust so anything that does this the best clearly is doing a better job at it than another. Some people are more sensitive to certain pollutants in the air than others so for someone that finds better relief from vacuuming with hepa bags versus non hepa clearly then it’s worth the expense for them. Others just want the cleaners fair possible from a vacuum and others who don’t have issues with the allergens may not want to spend for hepa bags.

But having been a user of many vacuums and Aerus/Electrolux canisters for most of my life. I can say that a combination of factors really makes a difference...how well the bag seals in the machine, how well the bag seals when removing it to change it, the vacuum’s design snd seals it has itself and so on. A dirty fan vac will push dirty air through it before it gets to the bag, if that portion that pushes air through it is not sealed well enough dirt and contaminants will escape regardless of the bag type used.

A vac that has the motor after the bag is clearly a better design than a pre bag fan as far as leaking goes provided the area where the hose or dirt inlet seal seals well and doesn’t let dirt accumulate around it that could spill into the bag compartment. I’ve seen so many of those Kenmore Panasonic canisters with really dirty bag compartments. Poor paper bags and poor design where the bag and hose and bag compartment door all come together allowing dirt to get into the bag compartment.

I think it seems to be clear that the hepa bags work well based on dirt left behind in the bag compartment and next would be multi layer paper bags and that depends on the quality of the filter paper itself.

Jon

 

[tolivac]

The Kenmore vacuums work MUCH better with the aftermarket HEPA bags-big improvement over the old paper bags that have to be replaced when only half filled.With HEPA you can PACK that bag full!On fan first vacuums you need to make sure the bag is properly installed in the machine.Even with my NSSM1 vacuums no issues of leaking dust.Same with any other direct air vacuums I have.For central vacuum fans-I use HEPA DVC arftermarket bags in mine.They come in packs marked for NuTone central vacuums.These bags can hold several gallons of dirt.Will need to see if they can fit my NSS M1'sThe NSS paper bags work well-they can hold 6 gallons of dirt.Come in packs of 6 for about $40 per pack.Have several packs on order.Use the M1 along with my central vacuums.And the NSS is a true portable version of a central vacuum-motor is 13A.

 

[vap0rtranz]

good points Jon

You make several good points.

Everytime I read about HEPA (and MERV for HVAC), all the experts say:

leak, leaks, leaky

Doesn't matter what bag / cannister is used if the machine leaks.

Your description of the Kenmore reminds me of my Grandpa's old canister vac. We could never get the paper blags flush when inserting, the can was always dusty, so upgrading to a HEPA would make little difference for that machine.

Does anybody do leak tests on vacs?

I've only ever seen airflow / CFM and dirt dump comparisons. I'd assume a rather technical (aka. $$$) system would be needed to detect leaky vacs.

Another good point you make is the mess I make cleaning my cloth bags. Washing them isn't the issue but its the shake-outs inbetween washes. I shake out outside, aiming to be upwind, next to a tree to beat, but you won't be surprised to hear that dust sometimes blows right back at me. So I vacuumed only to have dust thrown back at me. Hah! Defeats the purpose.

Finally, the big reason I avoid HEPA: call me a hippie. Mother Earth is the reason. Like Greg said, HEPA bags are going to take ages to biodegrade. I've a similar issue with HVAC filters: the washable filters don't help with allergens, dog dander, etc. (low MERV ratings). I just discovered that K&N came out with a MERV 11 washable HVAC filter but every forced air ductwork that I've seen takes 4 or 5" thick filters, so I'd have to retrofit -- in a way that doesn't make the HVAC leakier, to bring this full circle and back to leaks. It would be nice if something washable or biodegradable would work for vacs.

I hate to admit that what Dyson popularized & got into many, many homes has the potential to get homeowners HEPA w/out lots of trash. But washing their vacs was a total pain IMO. Plus their plastic fell apart on me so the entire vacuum was trash after 5 years.

 

[vaclab]

Leak Tests On Vacuums

Some things to consider...

Do Cheap Vacuums Spew?


Five Years Old Equals Must Throw Out? | 2015 Bagless Hoovers Closed Room Particle Tests


Closed Room Air Cleaner Test Using A Kirby Sentria II


Closed Room Air Cleaner Test Using A Dyson DC65


As far as paper being "greener", the tree huggers wouldn't agree. Paper bags kill trees and are thrown out at a higher rate due to performance drops and bag splits.

A HEPA bag with a large hole (i.e. Kirby, Royal, etc.) can be reused a number of times without failure.

Long Term Reusable Kirby HEPA Bag Test


What type of vacuum cleans the air more quickly?
Answer: a traditional dirty fan machine using a HEPA (H11 or better) bag. Why? Because they process much more air than clean air machines do. I've measured Kirby and Sanitaire exhausts hitting around 180 CFM right before the bag and more than 150 CFM at the floor nozzle.

Bill

 

[suckolux]

Not surprised with the Hoover Air, I have one and have never had issue with the dust and I'm sensitive.

 

[ridgidwd0670]

I found Nautavac HEPA bags at Meijer & their bags aren't as good as VAC (Vac America Clean) for my Electrolux 2100 & Eureka Dial-A-Nap ESP

However I tried the VAC HEPA bags for Compact/TriStar & I haven't had to clean out the cloth bag or pre-motor filter as often like I did when using micro-lined paper bags

 

[jade_angel]

For me it's the fact that HEPA bags lose airflow slower than paper bags. Disposable bags of either kind win out over shake-out because when you swap 'em, you get (nearly) all your lost airflow back - laundering shakeout bags when they get too dusty is a pain in the rear end.

The superior filtration is a beneficial side effect, IMHO, but if you need it, it's well worth the trouble.

 

[gregvacs28]

I agree with you.

I can't believe anybody would want to put a mucky cloth vacuum bag in their washer with all that ..... on it.

It's not like washing clothing or bedding that has more oils and small bit of muck.

A vac bag is literally covered in muck. I doubt it all rinses away.

Disposible is def. the way to go, imo, regardless of paper or Hepa.