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Bee-Vac or Apex?

That would be an Apex, made in Cleveland Ohio. This VERY same model was feaured in my 1938 Wards Spring Summer Catalog.

I of course have the TOL Apex version. However, this machine is not chrome like mine, and it does NOT have the which way handle. Also the headlight "ribs" are veritcal, on the Apex their horizontal. The motor cap IS SO SUPER streamlined tho...

It's a sexy beast for sure.

I'm suprised that no one jumped on it.

Someone should alert Tania or Charlie. Both of them loved my Apex, and this may give them a chance to own an equally rare machine.

Chad


Ann Arbor Michigan
 
Why do we do this?

I have to throw my two cents in here. Why is it necessary to post so many links to eBay auctions here? Is someone trying to drive the prices artificially high? Swingette, do you have a vested interest in advertising it on this site? I say let vintage vac collectors discover these treasures on eBay for themselves and if necessary, post the link on here only after the auction has ended.
 
Just my two cents here but I appreciate it when members post links to neat machines on ebay. It may very well be someones dream machine and they too might not have seen it. I can see your thoughts Karl but that is why it is an auction.
 
Just my two cents...

Ebay,

Okay IMHO putting up a link to an ebay posting isn't where the prices excalating comes from. Yes, it opens up the possibility for other(s) to see what is going on, but I believe that many people sell the site short for it's invariable power it has secured around the world...

It comes from us BTW, and those we do not know. there are literally several hundred vacuum collectors, perusing the planet for the few really awesome treasures thaat there are left to find. We as collectors, who MUST have that very item that is shown amongst the listings of e-bay, drive the price (s) where they are today on that site.

It comes from the inability to find, near ones home the item that's displayed, or a personal attachment. It comes from people who are possibly looking to have that MINT or NIB machine that only comes around a few times in a century, or are simpoly too lazy to do the searching and footwork needed to find cheaper and more satisfying prizes....amongst other factors.

There are literally anywhere between 10 to several hundred people who view the (vintage)vacuum categories on e-bay within a items lifespan, and subsequent win date. Whomever wishes to pay the piper at the end of the auction sets the tone for the next items that are put upon the pages. And these items may NOT be as nice, or as complete, or as desirable than the one before it.

But I digress...

If you want to find something, there have been literally scores of collectors who simply find thier "treasures" by doiong lots of driving, footwork, sifitng thru improbable, murky vacuum dealer basements, sheds, closets and storerooms. There are so many thrift stores, garage sales, estate sales, newspaper advertisements and etc that can be gone thru and sifted out also. Many of them are RIGHT at your fingertips.

Many of us have made good with these people who run these type of extablishments, and they set aside the rime stuff for us to grab. It does happen. You just have to make the situation work...

And with these types of purchases, you see what your're getting in realtime, and can decide on the spot if your willing to pay for the item that your looking at. There are NO hidden boo boo's, and certainly you hauling that item home wont get the boo boo's that many get from dealing with shipping.

If you want a deal, it's NO LONGER normally found on e-bay, but that's not always the case. Some sit and start their wind machines about not finding anything, and then one day, becasue of whatever reason, a gem comes and goes, and sells for a song. THIS happens RARELY...... Sometimes yes you will find something that you want at a "fair" price, but in many cases no you will not. E-bay purchasers also factors in crappy sellers, who imporperly box, and ship, sending you something completly different from what you order, or charge you a mint for shipping.

I gave up on e-bay for finding vacuum cleaners. Yeah there have been a few I've bid on, but I set a limit. I've learned that setting a "personal" limit on what I will spend on a cleaner, leaves me far happier in the long run.

Something that helped me change my mind....

An example is the Hoover Convertible, with a good ol' metal base. Once upon a time a Hoover Convertible whether it was a model 67, 70, 707, 1060, 1070 or whathave you could be had for less than $50.00. In many cases for far less than that.

Supply and demand have caused these machines to triple or even quadruple in price over the last few years, to the point that they cost more than what peole paid fo them the first time around.

That to me is ludicris.

I found a wonderful 707, with minor scratching, and bag fraying at a doofy little small town hole that claimed that they were an antique mall for $15.00. I was 35 miles away from home when I found it. Factor that the WHOLE trip cost me about a half a tank of gas, and I visited FAR more places that day than just the little doofy shop. So let's just add in that to get to and from home to that shop cost me around $12.00 ( becasue gas was around $4.00 still) when the trip happened. And that Hoover model 707 cost me $27.00

Try finding that on ebay...

Chad


Ann Arbor Michigan....
 
Okay, Chad, I will agree with what you say. But suppose you're like me, and you live in a part of the country where vintage vacs, and old-time vac shops which keep even older trade-ins are almost nil? Ebay is your only source of finding vintage vacs for the most part without driving hundreds of miles. I come from a time when you could have had say, a Hoover Convertible 65, 66, or 67 for hardly anything. I was out there at people's curbs when they were throwing away Hoover Constellations and Kirby 500 series. Sadly, we no longer live in those times. And, in the rare instance where someone does today, usually some SOB beats me to it. By posting eBay links on this site before the auction ends almost GUARANTEES the vac WILL NOT be sold for a fair price. I have to question when a link is posted on this forum as to whether or not the poster is in cahoots with the seller to drive the price up. The forum is being manipulated for other purposes then why we are here, which is to have a friendly discussion about vacuum cleaners. So, in a nutshell IMHO, it ruins the thrill of the chase when these "dream machines" are advertised on this site.
One of my other hobbies besides vintage vacuums is collecting electric trains. For the most part, I don't even attempt to buy them on eBay anymore, the hobby has become so dog-eat-dog and cutthroat, and farejacking on eBay runs rampant.
 
Just my two cents, part 2.

Karl,

I too more than you know understand your frustration with finding machines. It's no longer like shooting fish in a barrell. If your age information is correct, I'm only a few months older than you, so I do "remember" when you literally could walk your neighborhood streets and find "treasures", and the old line "junque" stores where you could find a 1959 General Electric Swiveltop for a song, and a $20- spot. That Karl was my VERY first vintage vacuum cleaner.

I've searched for another one for years on e-bay that wasn't selling for a mint, and one of two things always prevents me...

1. I'm not willing to spend a large sum to get another one, or am just monetarily unable to- or-
2. The shipping far outweighs what I'll spend on such item,a nd I let it slip.

Yet, I'm unable to find one around me either???

I'm unaware of where Lynbrook New York is, and will google earth it later to see, but forgive me for wondering that there aren't any Sally Ann's/Salvation Army's; no Value World/Value Village; no DAV or Disabled American Vetrans; no
privately owned thrift style stores available in your or any other surronding communities.

I drive, around 60 to 100 miles on my thrifting adventures of western Detroit, southern Detroit and Downriver finding what I seek. I go quite a fair ways away from home trying to find these things. 50 % of the time I find something, the other 50% nada, zip , zilch...NOTHING! I get home, sink down in my chari and usually always exclaim "What a waste of a tank of gas"....

That to me is where e-bay comes into looking mighty nice...

In Ann Arbor proper, there are only three different places that I find vacuums. My store, or one of the other branches in the company; the Sally Ann/ Salvation Army, and one Value World.

To sum things up, I do not think that swingette is in it for anything other than just giving a heads up. I've met this person, and was just as cool as you could ask a person to be..

In a way you should be thankful that your not an automatic washer/ appliance collector. They have a person on that site who's name is Laundress, who THOUROUGHLY combs e-bay for every applaince and washer snippett she can find.

EVERY SINGLE ONE...

I wish you the best Karl in your finds. There are plenty more to be had.

Chad


Ann Arbor Michigan....
 
Yes, Chad, you are are correct, I am few months younger than you. Next year will mark 20 years of collecting vintage vacs. My first machine (which I still have) was a Hoover model 28, in almost mint condition, that I bought at a garage sale for the princely sum of $10.00.
Actually, Lynbrook is about 15 minutes away from me now. I moved to Jamaica, Queens several months ago. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I have since updated my profile information.
Except for Salvation Army, I am not familiar with any of the thrift shops you mention above. We DID have a thrift store chain called Savers, where you could maybe find a Concept One or plastic-based Convertible, nothing really vintage. It dissolved well over a year ago. My experience has been people tend to hold onto things longer in the midwest, such is not the case here. When I visited Oreck in Louisiana in 2004, I was amazed to see 1988 Lincoln Town Cars (like the one I had at the time) still in daily use as taxi cabs.
I too am a vintage appliance collector. In my kitchen sits a 1928 G.E. Monitor Top "beehive" refrigerator, a 1947 Frigidaire refrigerator (my daily driver), and a 1947 Easy wringer washing machine that belonged to my grandmother. I have also a 1948 Philco wringer washer, and a 1939 Bendix automatic. I'm more into the wringer washing machines, automatics are not really my cup of tea. But I suppose that's why Baskin Robbins makes 31 flavors!
 
Generally speaking, the links that are posted are to machines that the poster has no interest in, e.g., a Hoover collector posting a link to an Electrolux and so on. It seems rare that a Kirby collector will post a link to a Kirby auction, if you see what I mean.

I mean, why =would= someone want to post a link to a machine they want to bid on?! That's called "shooting yourself in the foot." Especially with those compulsive snipe-bidders out there who won't hesitate to drive an auction to absolutely mind-boggling heights just to get yet another machine that they probably already have a dozen of.

That having been said, the logical question that would seem to follow is, "Why, then, post =any= live eBay listings, when doing so almost surely ensures that someone ELSE will get "shot in the foot?"

It puzzles me that people who do this don't seem to realize they very likely will be knocking down someone's chance to get a machine at a reasonable price. They post these listings with the surely well-meaning intention of doing other collectors a favor, but don't really seem to think that through.

Collectors who use eBay know how to use the search functions -- or should know how, at any rate. They don't need other people's help to find things. This is simply what's called in poker "keeping your cards close to your chest." And, yes, with eBay being a source for many collectors, it only makes good sense to take the approach of "playing good poker."

While many (including me) wish it was not so, the days are long gone of the VCCC being a half-dozen collectors who meet in someone's house and trade sweepers. With the VCCC membership now numbering somewhere around 300, and with other clubs having been formed, and with eBay presenting the world's largest garage sale to a global market, competition for great finds on eBay can be fierce.

Case in point -- the "Stan Kann Memorial Hoover 700" that I just won.

If "certain" people had seen that auction, I =AM= certain that it would have gotten bid up into the stratosphere, just to get the original bag if for no other reason. (I say this recalling the time not long ago when a "NOS" Hoover bag went for almost two hundred dollars.) I have to say, I would have been dismayed in the extreme if I came in here and saw that someone had helpfully posted a link to that auction!!

I really do think the more considerate and prudent approach would be to refrain from publicizing "amazing" finds on eBay until the auction has closed. If friends want to alert other friends to good finds, how about sending them a personal email? That's what I do.

Granted, sometimes, people post links to their own listings. I don't mind that so much; I have done it myself from time to time -- as we have seen, doing so =does= tend to yield good results! I would never begrudge a fellow seller a smash-up eBay auction. That is, not as long as the poster states that it's their machine and something disingenuous like "Oh look what I found on eBay." (which has happened)

Just my 137¢'s worth.
 
Charles, the fact that you gladly publicise your own listings and resent the posting of other listings speaks volumes! You've heard this before, but of course you will not see the connection.
 
I don't "gladly publicise [my] own listings and resent the posting of others." So there are no "volumes" being said here.

I never said I "resent" anything. I simply said I did not think it's a good practice, for the reasons stated, and at the same time DID qualify the fact that it's a different matter for people to post their OWN auctions as opposed to posting "rare finds" they happen to come across in searching eBay listings.

(And, given that I have not listed anything on eBay in nearly a year, that unfair characterization of me is entirely moot. In all of 2008 I sold exactly ONE item. And in 2007, I sold SEVEN things. It's hardly like I am a power seller making vast fortunes on eBay by advertising them here to jack up the bidding.)

Apparently someone didn't read my entire message. Or chose to disregard the part that did not fit within their axe-grinding accusation. "So it goes" with those who have unresolved grudges.

As to those who wish to join the VCA, I will say that that group actually turned into a really nice club, once all the dust finally settled. It's a much smaller club, more homey and unofficial, and far less cluttered with "issues" and "emo." It's actually much like the VCCC was when we only had a dozen members.
 
It's pointless even arguing this. It's replaying like a scratched record again. The simple point is that some people like to see the auctions posted and some don't. You can't stop people from posting them if they want. There are no rules against it. It's not bad forum etiquette to some people and to others it is.. there will NEVER be agreement on the subject so forget about it and move on.
 
Pete,

Thank you for your voice of reason. There is never going to be a 100% agreement on this subject.

I personally enjoy seeing the items, again Ebay is an Auction, the highest bidder wins...period...end.

This club has grown in part because of Ebay. People have learned of our club as a result of an Ebay sale.

Again, if you don't like a post you see...don't read it...move on and find one you do like.

Morgan
 
Right, Morgan, and I assume that your "move on" suggestion applies to us all, even those of us with differing opinions...? Or just those who agree with the consensus?

I never said my viewpoint is popular, but I don't see why I don't have the same freedom to express it as those who feel differently --- even though, granted, SO MANY people apparently disagree with it and don't want to debate it or discuss it.

Sometimes, through discourse, when sound reasoning and logic are presented, people CAN change their opinions on a subject. Sometimes not. But does that mean we can't have any debates as long as they are civil and don't descend to ad hominem* attacks and insults? I did present my side frankly, but civilly. Then along came those who apparently can only disagree by resorting to character assassinations.

-------
* ad hominem: /æd ˈhɒmənəm ‑ˌnɛm, ɑd-/ [ad hom-uh-nuhm ‑nem, ahd-] –adjective

(2) attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.
 
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It should not be a big deal to anyone if someone wants to post anything about an interesting item for auction on ebay. To me it is the same as when people post links to ebayauctions to point out the stupidity of some sellers who think their junk is worth a fortune.
I also think everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we can't agree on things 100% of the time, that's life so deal with it.
I also think that the repetitive problems we have when there are links posted to ebay is getting old and is like beating a dead horse. So deal with it and move on to talking about something we are all here to talk about, vacuums.
 
"I also think that the repetitive problems we have when there are links posted to ebay is getting old and is like beating a dead horse." - Well then if that's true, then maybe the people who are doing it should realize that it's frowned upon by some and stop. We are here to talk about vacuums, not to advertise them. If links have to be posted on this site such as to prove a point, so be it, but do so after the auction ends. I'm sure the people who post these links wouldn't like it so much if it was an item they were interested in bidding on, and trying to get for a fair price. I guess we'll all just have to agree to disagree on this subject.
 

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