Farm Voltage Premier

[hoover300]

Bought this from @rugsucker a little over a month ago.
There was a point when I didn’t believe I was going to get it running. Every single part was seized solid; even the handle joint! The fan itself was rusted to the motor housing and wouldn’t move even after the retaining nut was removed. Also missing several parts like the back wheel assembly, bag and bag cuff, one of the switch knobs for the push through switch, bottom cover, and every drop of oil. Going by the weathering, water marks inside, and woodpecker holes in the handle I think it spent several decades outside.

Opening this took multiple weeks with a power drill and lots of wd40. I had to improvise a couple pieces of hardware that needed to be drilled out, as well as make a new back wheel bracket and bag cuff. The bag is a faded Premier Duplex bag, it is almost illegible so hard to tell it isn’t original to this model.

This being a 32v DC farm current model, it runs on drill batteries. In the next few weeks I’ll be building a bridge rectifier so I can run it off my variac no problem. For some reason, 32V AC doesn’t cut it.

I still need to paint the back wheel, find a bottom cover that fits, and wax it. But, running in time for the holiday.

Merry Christmas folks!!

 

[hoover300]

 

[huskyvacs]

Wow what a mess! It's truely a miracle this survived the war scrap drive, which befell many a vacuum postwar.

That is the most adorable little cooling fan I ever saw.

It's amazing what these motors can go through and still run. Gives me hope for a lot of the old vacuums I have.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Amazing restoration! Looks mint! DC and AC power are very different. I can understand why it needs DC.

 

[huskyvacs]

The Vacuum Cleaner: A History by Carrol Gantz states the K14B came out 1916, the Canada Science and Technology Museum says 1913.

 

[cheesewonton]

Amazing restoration! Looks mint! DC and AC power are very different. I can understand why it needs DC.

A commutated universal motor should run on both AC and DC, but the AC voltage ought to be greater than the DC voltage.

 

[hoover300]

A commutated universal motor should run on both AC and DC, but the AC voltage ought to be greater than the DC voltage.

It does run on 32 AC if jumpstarted but it doesn’t run well, and it makes some odd noises

 

[centralsweeper63]

Well, it may well predate the universal motor.

 

[hoover300]

Well, it may well predate the universal motor.

I thought so but I’ve gotten a look at the 120v version and it is rated for both.. maybe it’s an amperage thing with my variac.. I have no idea

This one doesn’t say Frantz on it, would it be a bit later?

 

[cheesewonton]

Well, it may well predate the universal motor

Look at the image of the armature. That is a universal motor. The commutator is dirty but visible.

 

[cheesewonton]

It does run on 32 AC if jumpstarted but it doesn’t run well, and it makes some odd noises

It needs more AC volts.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Oh, I hadn't seen it. Anyway, it sounds like they have it under control.

 

[hoover300]

Went up to 50 volts ac which is supposedly the equivalent to 32dc. It didn’t like it, and unless jump started by hand it would only buzz. When hooked to batteries it starts right up.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Oh, alright.

 

[huskyvacs]

Went up to 50 volts ac which is supposedly the equivalent to 32dc. It didn’t like it, and unless jump started by hand it would only buzz. When hooked to batteries it starts right up.

Stop putting AC power on it. It is DC only. You are going to destroy it. Having to "push start" a DC motor that's "buzzing" while trying to feed it high current AC is complete insanity to do this to an antique motor.

 

[centralsweeper63]

That was based on CheeseWonton's suggestion. Based on your description it will NOT run on AC. Huskyvacs is right, it will ruin your amazing work.

 

[huskyvacs]

That was based on CheeseWonton's suggestion. Based on your description it will NOT run on AC. Huskyvacs is right, it will ruin your amazing work.

Which was wrong. This vacuum predates the widespread use of universal current motors by either 1 to 5 years (https://patents.google.com/patent/US1238290A/en). Feeding it AC power is shorting out the magnetic coil because both fields are trying to run at the same time, and are fighting each other, which is, and will, burn up the windings. It's generating heat. That antique lacquer on the coils will go up like dry grass and a lit match. Especially on a motor that's likely being run for the first time since FDR passed away. These motors are irreplaceable and getting it rebuilt would cost 3 or 4 figures if you could even find an oldtimer that knew how the coils were packed. If you don't know what you're doing, stop, and go no farther. Consult someone knowledgeable on antique electrics made before WW1. This is why we pay big money to specialists skilled in precisely one task to fix our hokey derelict junk for us.



If the motor was dual current, it would be stamped "DC or AC" on the boilerplate, such as the Premier Spic and Span. This would appear on vacuum cleaners sold after the Rural Electrification Administration's inception when people would be looking for new appliances to run in their house as they removed their battery power plants and DC appliances, or still had the battery power plants they wanted to keep during the slow adoptation of city power to farmland. The Spic and Span was the first use of the dual current motor for Premier because it was a smaller and cheaper unit to make on an unproven technology rather than producing a larger upright vacuum motor that might not sell well compared to a little hand vac (which were higher sellers). Nobody knew at the time which current type would become dominant, just like VHS or Betamax. Of course we know now that AC line power became the ultimate victor.



Remember; no company wants you to ruin their new product just as badly as you don't want to either. It's simply not good for business. If something is compatible or not, it will be clearly marked as such on the appliance in situations where serious harm can be done.

 

[lesinutah]

That looks like a frantz premier. Would a frantz premier motor work in it?

 

[lesinutah]

That looks like a frantz premier. Would a frantz premier motor work in it?

 

[hoover300]

Les- Wow where did you find that?

Huskyvacs- I didn’t run it for more than about 5 seconds on AC. Making those sounds it couldn’t have been good.

Consult an expert- I tried. I posted in the dedicated Delco Light Plant(32v people) group. I was suggested to build a rectifier but most were befuddled that it is a non permanent magnet motor that could not run on ac, and was also suggested to just seek out a delco light plant generator to power it. My old boss said he could assist me in building a bridge rectifier if needed.

They did admittedly have universal motors around this time. This is my 1919 premier 21- almost identical except for some of the fittings on the back.

 

[lesinutah]

Hey quite the vacuum and transformation if i ever seen one.
Ebay had a frantz premier art deco piece for sale. That was the headline for it. I realized it as a motor unit for a frantz premier that id never ever own. I bought it and polished it up. I plugged it in for fun and the motor runs. The bearings are dry but i doubt ill open it up. I just polished it have it for display.

 

[hoover300]

Hey quite the vacuum and transformation if i ever seen one.
Ebay had a frantz premier art deco piece for sale. That was the headline for it. I realized it as a motor unit for a frantz premier that id never ever own. I bought it and polished it up. I plugged it in for fun and the motor runs. The bearings are dry but i doubt ill open it up. I just polished it have it for display.

That is awesome. Lucky find!! They have bronze bushings, you should be able to just oil them and it should run better. Does it still have its motor shaft or was it cut/modified into a different tool? A friends Premier motor was turned into an electric sander..