Fantom Fury overheating very quickly

[texaskirbyguy]

I assume this is a one speed motor with only two known wires to hook it up easily?
The couple times that I had a similar issue was when I mis-wired some two-speed Kirby motors at the safety switch. I caught them before damage was done thankfully.

Any possibility you damaged any of the motor windings during installation, either physically or by use of a solvent that would dissolve the wire insulation?

When a brushed motor is drawing excess current, the sparking at the brushes will be very severe.

Try running the motor out of the vacuum and see if it persists. If possible, post a current draw reading if you have a meter.

 

[electroluxxxx]

this motor was cleaned but it was not cleaned with liquid except for the fans. again the motor was benched for over an hour at 120v on a variac transformer and then again straight from the outlet for another 20 min. The brushes were checked, reseated and bearings were greased. when the motor was sent out there was nothing at all wrong with it. I had helped nick previously with the installation of the other motor via face time, which when he sent the first motor the commutator was extremely black and a little charred. I had started it on a variac, cleaned the commutator, and reseated the brushes and that motor was run for about an hour and a half at 120v from the outlet Directly and no issues. The motor was sent back out and lasted about 5 min in his machine which I am extremely boggled by considering that, when both motors were sent out the commutators were PERFECT and gold nonetheless running absolutely beautifully. where this all went wrong is beyond me. I service hundreds of motors yearly and am no novice when it comes to servicing motors but I guarantee that if both motors were sent back to me and I were to reseat the brushes, polish the commutators and bench them BOTH for over an hour they will not fail on my bench.

 

[kirbylux77]

Nick

I would keep an eye out for a Westinghouse Wired in running order, buy it & transplant it's motor into your Fantom Fury. The Westinghouse was identical to your Fantom, with the exception the bin was single cyclonic since Salton didn't have a licence to use Dyson's Dual Cyclone patents. You can usually find one in your local classifieds or Craigslist if you are persistent, & they do pop up on Ebay occasionally too.

There may also be a chance if you can find the motor's model number in the Westinghouse that the motor may still be in production & available to purchase. These were known for being durable motors....so much to the point that our former vac shop kept scrapped Fantom Fury motors to transplant in Electrolux uprights when one came in for a motor replacement. All that needed to be done was the belt pulley cut off, otherwise it's a direct swap.

I wouldn't waste your time or money trying to figure out or repair whatever is wrong with this second motor. My experience with motors in general has been that you can change motor carbons & clean a motor's armature to extend it's life, but when a motor's done, it's DONE, & it's just better & less costly to replace.


Rob

 

[niclonnic]

I have to say

It feels like everybody is making attacks at Mike (electroluxxxx) with the way they're talking in their posts. He's been a member of this site before me. I know Mike takes great pride in his work. The fact that he's been in touch with me to help me out to try and resolve these issues is even more useful. I'm learning how to do motor repair in the process.

As for my Fantom Fury, I'm still baffled as to why it's delivering excess current to the motor. But don't worry; Mike will get this all sorted out. I'll hear more about the plan come Tuesday.

By the way, I wanted to add that I have an interview at my local Target scheduled for next Monday. I hope I can get the job! I had been volunteering at Goodwill over the past 6 months. It'll be nice to have a real job where I can make money and support my family.

 

[honestjoe68]

@niclonnic

Hey Nick!

I have followed along here and I’m sorry you’re still experiencing motor issues with your Fantom, but as you said I’m sure it will all get sorted out in time. I don’t know many members here but it sounds as though Mike (Electroluxxxx) is being very helpful and trying hard to make things right, I have high hopes and respect you both. I’ve had a few people on here be very helpful with advice and kind words, but some people have other strong opinions that sometimes stress me out or frustrate me. BUT.. it’s a group of people from all over of differing ages and you’ll have some disagreement from time to time as that’s life. I just wish everyone understood sometimes “Typed Words” can sometimes be interpreted differently or lack of punctuation, etc can make it seem negative. I hope that through posts and sharing and getting to know each other a little better, we all can just get along and have FUN as this site was intended. Ok, I don’t want to sound too preachy, so I’ll stop here.. but I think we all just enjoy our Vacuum collecting SO much we all get a little excited sometimes. I personally never want to offend ANYONE here and wish you all the best in your Vacuum endeavors!

Lastly, I wish you Nick the very best of Luck with your job interview at Target! Just relax and be yourself, you will do great and I have confidence you WILL get the job! Take care and thanks for sharing!

Patrick

 

[justjunque]

Job interview

Hey Nick,

I wanted to wish you luck with the interview as well.
I can't think of anything to say beyond what Patrick said; I just wanted to second it!

Thanks for mentioning that, Patrick. I had meant to, and got sidetracked.

I too have been following the continuing saga of the overheating Fury.
I don't get into the mechanical elements of my machines, so I have nothing to offer for advice.
But I truly hope that you're able to get it solved, so you can fully enjoy your Fury!

Barry

 

[blackheart]

Wiring.

It's most likely not the case but years ago (like 15+) Years ago i picked up a fantom thunder and i recall it having some sort of electrical "board" where a bunch of wires plugged into I put it back together wrong cause whenever i turned it on it'd instantly blow the breaker. Does the Fury have a board like that?

 

[madman]

I mean, hey, I'm not trying to offend anyone here. I'm only trying to help. When Mike says he bench tested the motor for hours, and did a great job on the motor rebuild, I believe him 100%. What I don't like is his attitude, that he so easily dismissed me and others with a response of 'I did everything right,' when - while I'm sure he did his part correctly - he did not, in fact, do 'everything.' Helping Nick to install the motor over the phone doesn't count as being there in person and doing it himself, putting hands on it, feeling the work, the torque of the screws, the tightness of the connectors, and seeing the shape of how it all fits together. I'm sorry, it just doesn't count.

Now say whatever you want about me, and I don't know about you, but I personally don't like being told that I'm wrong because of something completely unrelated to WHY I'm wrong.

--------------

Moving on, Nick, I'm only now able to watch the youtube video, because I've been out of the country for the past two weeks. Looking at the wiring, you initially asked if it was wrong. First question, is it a two speed motor? Second question, why does it look like there's an extra blade connector around the other side from where the two wires are connected?

At this point I'm going to say with 99% certainty that you've connected one of the wires (looks like yellow) DIRECTLY to one of the brush's connectors. On a series wired motor (like most vacs) the motor is wired thusly:

Line -> 1st field coil -> brush -> armature coils -> brush -> 2nd field coil -> Neutral

From what I'm seeing, you've bypassed one (more accurately one-half) of the field coils. Like so:

Line -> brush -> armature coils -> brush -> 2nd field coil -> Neutral

What this would do is greatly reduce the overall resistance of the motor, causing it to draw a lot more juice, and arc a lot (though there are more complicated reasons why it would arc). In theory the motor would still run in this case, with only one field coil working, but I've never attempted such a thing myself.

I'm betting now that the yellow wire should be connected to that other terminal on the motor, it would be the unconnected blade on the 'top' (looking at it from the video). Ensure that the yellow wire is NOT connected to the little woven string-like copper wire that is coming out of the carbon brush. If it is, move the yellow wire to that other blade connector. And give it a go.

I'm anxiously awaiting your reply.

 

[madman]

Well, either that, or the brush wire is supposed to be on that empty terminal. But I feel like Mikey would've been the one plugging the brushes in, unless they came loose in shipping and you reconnected it in the wrong place. Idk.

 

[bvac6]

I took apart my Fantom and watched it run and it produced some moderate sparking, got warm but continued to run with no cutting out. Silly thought but could it be that the thermal cutoff switch is worn out and tripping to soon?

 

[niclonnic]

Guys

HonestJoe68 and JustJunque, thank you for the kind words about my Target interview! I'm sure I'll do well at it.

Blackheart, I believe my Fury does have a board where the reset wires plug into. But the vacuum has never tripped my household circuit breaker.

MadMan, I think you may be right about your post! I'll have to give your idea a try. But I'm going to mail the motors to Mike so he can run the crap out of them in a Fury housing and see how they do. I think I may have labeled the terminals wrong.

Bvac6, I don't think the reset is bad, as it still activates while the motor is arcing. Mike suggested splicing the reset wires using a wire cutter and wire nut, but I don't think that's the case.

 

[relhall]

Watched the vid - motor sounds great winding down. That seems more of a wiring issue.

Likely a very simple fix. Good luck sorting it out, and good luck on the interview!



PS ~ assuming you get the job - as we are - can we use your Target discount?
I mean, we're all family here, eh? Certainly fight like it ~

 

[madman]

Hopefully that fixes it. Squinting at pic #2 at the top of thread, I can clearly see the brush and the yellow wire are on the same post, not 100% sure they are electrically connected to each other, but odds are good. Looking forward to hearing the good news.

Sending the motors off to Mikey is probably a good idea anyhow, he can tell you what kind of shape they're in.

 

[fantomtechguy]

New Motor on eBay

I found a listing for a new Fantom Fury Motor on eBay. It’s currently on auction for a pretty descent price.


http://https//rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/263895499699

 

[electroluxxxx]

@madman

Mikey? Awe don’t make me blush! I wish I knew what to call you but you’re profile doesn’t have a name. So I’ll call you Maddy!
As far as attitude goes you have no idea as to what you’re talking about because all you are doing is reading words on a screen. Talk to me over the phone or in person and you will understand that I’m not like that at all.
The machine has been run on video for me and no odd sounds seem to be coming from the machine. however what you don’t seem to realize is that it would take a MASSIVE amount of pressure to put any strain on the motor housing. So as far as your theory being dismissed that’s untrue just because I didn’t acknowledge it in writing doesn’t mean it was dismissed. As far as the yellow wire goes, that goes to the headlight. White and black have their own terminals and yellow runs off of the headlight.
Just so some people understand my generosity I’ll be paying to have the motors (both) sent back to me, I’ll be polishing and reseating the armatures, putting each motor in a fantom fury housing and running the crap out of them. If they seem to hold up which I expect them too then there is something up with the machine itself and not the motors. What is baffling is that if they run open and not enclosed in a body they run great, the used motor was used by myself in my own personal fantom and I have never had an issue so idk. Either way it will “all come out in the wash” and hopefully all turns out well.

@fantomtechguy
How’s your venture with the patents and everything? We haven’t heard from you in quite some time and so we would love to hear about how far you have gotten.

 

[madman]

Well Mikey, riddle me this.

What goes on that empty terminal? You know, the one that clearly has the mark of something having been connected to it previously? And why would the light need to have a takeoff in the middle of the motor? Aren't vac lights typically 120v?

 

[electroluxxxx]

Please don’t call me Mikey.

Some machines are 12-14v others are 120v i have repaired and rebuilt many fantom machines and can do it in my sleep. If you look at the brand new motor that fantomtechguy posted it already has the wires. The yellow, wire which is the headlight wire is connected to the carbon brush.

 

[man114]

I watched the spindown of the video of it arcing again and it sounds pretty darn normal. I found a motor with the fan shroud slightly bent around the hole but it doesn’t rub and I’d assume you’d hear it if it did.

Having worked on many of these I’m just not seeing the issue. I’m half tempted to pull one apart to see if something is being overlooked. The wiring is pretty straightforward.

 

[fantomtechguy]

Electroluxxxx

Thank you for asking for an update.

Over the past few months, I've had a very busy lifestyle which had caused me to move this project to only when I have free time to work on it. I have been designing many new types of concepts. The concepts are still being worked on and I will have three main designs to finalize. Once I get the three main concepts done, I will begin prototyping.

I am currently designing package design templates for accessories I am working on also. Once I begin to have more free time I will be able to work on this more. Please do not think that I've given up on it, that I would never do.

Too add, I'm also working on remastering the Fantom How to videos and other Fantom related media. I'm also currently making plans on releasing an encyclopedia dedicated to Fantom Technologies and it's products complete with in-depth photos, guides and other pieces of Fantom history.

I have a very big dream of how I want this to come together, that's why I'm taking my time with it so the quality can be something I'm proud of.

Thanks again and have a good day!