Even More airflow tests (part 3)

[blackheart]

I don't enjoy having to scroll through long topics so I figured i'd break this into another part rather than further extending the previous thread.

I finally got my Hepa Filters for my backpack today and i've been itching to see how it does. This is the highest hose airflow i've seen on any canister style machine, the next in line would be the Patriot P3 at 116.61 , then the lux platinum at 112.51.

I was disappointed with the nozzle numbers, I thought it would be over 90 CFM and based upon this nozzles ability to stick to both my kitchen floor and my area rugs I was expecting a higher waterlift from it too. If I try to clean my Sebo rug this setup drags it around, even with the suction relief open, as you can see in this short video. I suppose I suppose I should be thankful, if it had more nozzle suction it might just seal down to the carpeting.

I'm curious to see what this would pull with a standard 1.5" hose, but unfortunately it didn't come with one.

Next up will be the Patriot P3. I don't have the proper wands for it but I have the hose and I can put my Felix's ET-1 on it for testing since that's what's being offered with it currently.

 

[blackheart]

Patriot!

so close to that 100 mark for nozzle airflow! I decided to borrow the ET-1 off my Felix for this test due to Patriot currently pairing the P3 with it. I did switch out the original hose stub for another due to it having an unusual button lock placement. the original did not have a suction relief. I also am using a different wand due to me not having the original wands. I am using Vacuum America clean Hepa bags and the post motor filter's condition is not known.

 

[vaclab]

I'll Add My Recent TriStar CXL Tests Here

Rather than add to the old thread. For such an old machine, seems like great performance. Comparing to your first post showing the ProTeam backpack, note that the old TriStar falls behind by only 1 nozzle CFM.

Bill

 

[lesinutah]

Nice

I notice TriStar two speed close to the program but I own c9 which is at least 10cfm less than any tested.
I may just assume but the proteam, TriStar and patriot boast one common thing I presume the proteam is cyclonic power.
It shows cyclonic power in these 3 models is how houses were cleaned and proteam leading commercial market commercial vacuum are cyclone.bagged technology is the key to great performance in vacuums.
Thanks for the tests. I was tempted by proteam but I have to wait a little before next accusation that isn't thrift store cheap.
Les

 

[blackheart]

Bill

After watching your video on your CXL I realized your model has significantly more nozzle CFM than the CXL I tested. Now thinking back, looking at your PN rebuild video and recalling the work done on my own DXL I realized there was a foam in the nozzle that didn't belong in the vacuum. It was yellow and soft almost like what you'd find in furniture. this probably wasn't dense or compressed enough to act as a seal. I think I'll test my current DXL the numbers should be closer.

Yeah it's kind of a shame that the nozzle brought the backpack down so far. I'm thinking of converting the handle so I can use it with something different. Perhaps with the ET-1 and the higher power of the backpack it'll surpass the 100 mark. Or perhaps one of my other nozzles is more efficient, who knows.

 

[blackheart]

A lindhaus!

This just arrived today. It needed to be repaired right off the bat. The listing showed it as an open box item. It was very clean aside from a little carbon dust on the post motor filter. The problem was a piece of foam. right below the exhaust grill there was a piece of foam that did not breathe very well I did some initial measurements and got some terrible numbers, i also noticed the exhaust was very weak and hot. I took the post motor filter out and put my hand over the grill where i noticed air was coming out forcefully on both sides of it but not much in the center. So I opened up the machine and took the foam out. I left the motor wrap in place because it could breathe. So after removing the problem I re-measured it and got results more in line with what I thought. These units are kind of like Sebo in ways but their suction motor is often weaker, though they make up for it with an efficient brushroll. I've included pictures of the problem foam, the after filter, and the brushroll.

 

[n0oxy]

nozzle

Which nozzle are you using with your Proteam backpack? Most backpacks take a 1.5 hose, but you can use an adapter on the attachment end to use 1.25 attachments. Using 1.5 attachments may provide more airflow but not as many attachments are available in that size. All of my backpacks came with 1.5 hoses, I still use the hose but I bought this awesome end that allows you to use 1.25 attachments with it, and it provides a decent handle as well.
Mike

http://www.centecsystems.com/1-5-hose-to-1-25-premium-swivel-handle-locking/

 

[blackheart]

Nozzle and hose.

The nozzle is a Wessel Werk EBK340C
The hose with the electric nozzle kit is a 1.25 it's very similar to the wessel werk retrofit hose except it's shorter, has a non standard pigtail at the machine end, and a pigtail that resembles a computer cord that comes out of the handle.
I recently got my hands on a more standard backpack hose and got about 149.5CFM with that. I'm a little surprised the number is that low but the 90 degree cuff may be partially responsible.

 

[lesinutah]

Blackheart

Do you own these vacuums or are some from your work. If you own them you have a heck of a collection.
Les

 

[blackheart]

Les

I either own or previously owned most of them. My collection tends to be mostly high end machines and the cheaper ones tend to leave quicker. Typically anything that's on green carpeting was done at the shop's old location, I didn't own those machines I was just testing them.
There's also some other machines I tested at the shop's new location, like the Simplicity S10E,S10D, S10CV,S20D, S20UP, and the Proteam 1500XP. I did more recently try to test some of their new Lindhaus machines but I've not posted them due to missing information and the Activa chewing up my foam rubber strips on the box, it slid forward a bit and really ate away at it.
Oh and I didn't own the Filter Queen M360 that was part of a trade in lot and I brought it home for a day to compare it to the 75th anniversary.

I'm currently sitting at 28 machines, 6 of which are hand vacs. Really should trim it down but it's more difficult when you have money into them.

 

[lesinutah]

Ya

I really have no idea how many machines I have. I have about 10 hand vacs. Mine really aren't high end. I'd guess 20-30 but actual number I have no idea.
I think it's pretty sweet you own most of the tested vacs

Les

 

[vaclab]

Wow! 47 Nozzle CFM And 8" Lift is Really

Quite dreadful. Many cheap plastic vacs do the same if not better than this. So glad you tested this machine and showed what a low performer it is!

Bill

 

[blackheart]

ugh!

I wanted this machine to do better! I always figured if I bought another Lindhaus this would be the model. I liked my old grey one and felt it did well, but I'm very disappointed. The specs are 103 CFM and 90 waterlift (seen in pic 2). I want to know why this machine gets such low numbers despite having good specs. I've found that both lindhaus machines i've measured are not even close to their ratings.
To try to make some sense of this. I tore my Diamante apart again and measured it's waterlift and airflow at the motor I got a solid 80" which the diamante is rated for 78" I was getting some crazy airflow readings as high as 4921 (128 CFM). I think that this was due to the air being in a concentrated stream coming out from the motor. It was never really given the space to spread out and better fill the vane's area. I also noticed it was consuming a lot of wattage with the suction motor running at 982 watts and both motors at 1175 watts running at 125v while the ratings plate puts it at 930 watts.

 

[lesinutah]

Question

It looks like when using anamometer on nozzle you use a blow dryer am I seeing that right?
Les

 

[blackheart]

A blow dryer?

I'm rather confused. When measuring the nozzle I put the machine on the box attempt to seal it and then just use the vane that doesn't have the cone attached.

 

[vaclab]

Well, If The 103 CFM Rating

Actually meant 103 RAW motor CFM, then maybe your measurements are correct?

And yes, if you don't use a "cone" or some other adapter to mate to the anemometer, you can get wildly high CFM's. When I first got my GM8901, I was fiddling around one day and noticed that.

Bill

 

[blackheart]

Eh.

I don't know something feels off about it, I went back today to check the difference between the RX380E and the Healthcare pro. I inserted a 35mm wand into the hose port and took a suction reading of either 68 or 70 the RX had 66 There doesn't seem to be a relief valve in the HCP as little to no air seems to come out the exhaust when blocked off where the RX had very little coming out indicating a leak. According to the brochures they have the same cfm and suction specs.

The air path at least on the intake side is fairly simple going from the motor to the hose port should have 2 major seals the motor seal and the bag door. If the motors are capable of 90" we should be seeing much closer to that. I cannot see where 20" of suction would be lost in such a short path leading to me wonder if the published numbers are correct.

Now I get that different factors can result in different results but Looking at VacuumDevil's recent Numatic videos his James seemed to get about 70" where I get about 80" with an elevation difference of 4376 feet. But there's only a only a difference of 865 ft between Padova Italy and where I'm located so that cannot be the reason.

 

[lesinutah]

Por wue

Hey
What is in pic I posted. It looks like a hair dryer.
Les

 

[blackheart]

oooooh

That. That is a plastic funnel trimmed down to fit onto the vane. Bill told me that the baird cuff I was using was constricting the airflow into a small area thus giving me higher numbers. While he uses a paper cone I didn't want to use a paper cone due to my testing gear being stored somewhat...roughly and knowing that I would end up replacing that often last I sought out a more permanent fixture.
It isn't used for nozzle testing though I use my other vane which doesn't have the cone to put against the box. The cone is used for hose end and wand end measurements.