Dyson upright differences

[joe22]

to new dyson digital canisters

anyone tried the new canisters with the digital motors. how do they compare with the regular canisters. i know they are smaller in size.

what makes the motor so special and different from the regular motors. how is the suction power. is it the same design in a smaller size?

thanks for the info jack (-:

 

[vintagehoover]

Dyson's problems with the conventional motor...

Carbon brushes:

Conventional motors rely on carbon brushes, which require constant contact with the commutator to complete the circuit required to switch polarities and create torque. The friction between the stationary carbons, and the spinning commutator, creates wasted energy in the form of heat, and causes the carbons to wear down, like the lead in a pencil.

Speed / lifespan / performance:

In order to give the motor an acceptable lifespan (generally around 500-600 hours), manufacturers limit the rate at which the carbons wear down by limiting the motor speed to around 30,000-35,000 rpm. However, limiting the speed means limiting the performance.

Fan:

The traditional centrifugal fan is a large and fragile aluminium structure, which can sometimes break apart at high speed.

Construction:

The copper windings used within the motor add to its size and weight – and thus, the overall size and weight of the appliance it’s installed in.

 

[vintagehoover]

...and Dyson’s solution: The DDM

Dyson’s DDM digital motor took over a decade to develop – the work of Dyson’s Malmsbury-based team of 45 motor specialists, and protected by 15 patents.

Unlike a conventional motor, the DDM uses a PCB to digitally switch between polarities up to 3000 times a second. No carbons, and no contact between moving and stationary parts.

Since there are no carbon brushes, the Dyson engineers didn't face conventional speed/performance restrictions. The motor used in the Airblade hand-dryer, DC12, and DC22, can run at 88,000 rpm, and the DDM Version 2, found in the DC30/31/31 Animal handhelds, runs at 103,000 rpm!

It’s half the size and half the weight of a conventional motor, which means the appliances built around it can be much lighter and more compact. Thus, the power-to-weight ratio is far more efficient than any conventional domestic appliance motor.

The self-regulating software utilised by the DDM is also self-diagnosing, and certain DDM-machines can actually recognise a fault in the system, and communicate their findings over the phone to the Dyson Service Centre!

The DDM is manufactured on an entirely automated production line in a clean-room environment, and no human hand ever touches it before it’s placed within the cleaner.

The DDM uses a 3-dimentional impeller made of carbon fibre-reinforced PEEK, similar in design to a car turbocharger. It spins with just a 0.3mm tolerance between the blade tip and the impeller housing. Although engineeringly-complex, it’s physically simple – a one-piece construction which can’t fail like a conventional fan.

Dyson used the techno-friendly Japanese market as a dry-run for the Digital Motor, where it’s been used in the DC12 canister since 2004. With a lifespan equivalent to over 1000 hrs of constant use, the rate of failure was so low that Dyson are now happy to use it in the DC22 Motorhead in the US.

 

[shanonabc]

DC12

In my experience with my DC12..... Before issues, It was brilliant. About the same suction as DC21, Brilliant performance

Loved it while it lasted... Think the Australian current screwed it up somehow

 

[vintagehoover]

DDM V2

Same concept as the DDM, but designed specifically to run off battery power. It's miniaturised for use in the new generation of Dyson hand-held cleaners - and of course, any future Dyson small appliances which may require such a motor!

It's 84% energy-efficient, making it twice as efficient as the motor used in the previous DC16 handheld. This allows it twice the runtime on normal power. It's also a third of the size of the motor used in the DC16, and weighs just 139g. It runs at 103,000rpm - three times faster than a conventional motor.

The DDM V2 is self-regulating to optimise efficiency. An internal microprocessor makes up to 3,300 adjustments each second to control its speed. It monitors, responds and self-adapts to airflow.

This year alone, the DDM V2 will power 1.2 million Dyson machines worldwide.

 

[eluxca]

I bit the bullet and bought a DC17...

and really like it! Thanks Patrick for your testimony on this model, it really cinched the decision for me.

I was not sure that I would like a Dyson and I did not want to spend a mint on something that may be given away, so I bought a very well-kept used machine. It is the Animal, sans the floor tool and the turbo brush. The performance is a 8.5 out of 10. A canister it is not, and if I didn't have an easy-to-use canister already I might not like the machine as much as I do.

For it's major intention, carpet cleaning, it is great. Just like Patrick said, it really gets up the sand. It grooms the carpet extremely well and is well suited to my low-medium pile carpeting. Bare floor pickup is better than expected, too. I ordered a new premotor filter even though they are washable, I like my own dust better than someone else's. Suction before the changeout was very good, now it's brutal.

The build quality is very good and solid. The plastic construction led me to believe that the machine would be light, but that is not the case. It's a chunk.

I like it so much, I believe I will buy a new Dyson next year. Since the DC17 is being phased out, I may go with the DC28 or DC23, or maybe a DC25 and the kitschy ball. No longer will I poo poo a Dyson. Thanks Jack, Rob and Patrick!

John

 

[vintagehoover]

Hi John - so pleased to hear you're happy with your choice! And thanks to Patrick for providing some personal input on the DC17. We don't have the 17 in the UK, and although I have seen and examined one myself, I haven't used one extensively enough to really make a judgement as to it's capabilities.

Speaking of getting up sand, here's the results of a little experiment I did last Friday evening. For the historical talk I did at the museum, I borrowed this rug from my aunt's house. It's usually placed in the hallway which connects the front door with the living room, dining room and kitchen. In other words, everyone walks on it in their outdoor shoes when they first enter the house, so it gets pretty dirty.

My aunt has a Miele Revolution 500 (same as I had, before I traded it for my S7 Autocare!). The family is what you might call 'houseproud', and they do vacuum regularly, and thoroughly. Before I borrowed the rug, I vacuumed it at their house with the Miele just to make sure no loose dirt fell out in the car on the way home.

Here's a quick pic of the rug in use at the gallery:

 

[vintagehoover]

Since I knew I'd be giving demonstrations on the rug, I was concerned about my vintage cleaners pulling dirt out of it - the exhibition runs until the end of January, and I didn't want them sitting about with dirt in their cloth bags until then! It wouldn't have been practical for me to clean the bags out at the gallery, either, so I had to make sure that it was free of as much dirt as possible before the demos.

First off, I ran my DC07 Origin over the rug until dirt seemed to stop coming out of it. The Origin has a good round brush-roll with 3 rows of bristles, and has extremely powerful suction (290 airwatts).

This is what it got out:

 

[vintagehoover]

Here's a close-up, with my hand for size-comparison! As you can see, there's a lot of fine dust, very dense fluff, and pet hair (they have a cat):

 

[vintagehoover]

Then, I took my DC25 Overdrive and vacuumed it again, and the results were interesting:

 

[vintagehoover]

Very little extra fluff or dust came out (except for a lot of very fine dust in the inner chamber).

But the DC25 DID get a large quantity of grit! Why? Because although it's actually less powerful than the DC07 (220 airwatts), it agitates the carpet a lot better. The bristle-tufts are dense, short and stiff; not to the same extent as the DC17, but similar. When it's running, if you put your foot by the side of the head, you can feel strong, distinct vibration from as far as a foot away.

So Hoover were right: suction, or suction and sweeping alone aren't enough. The carpet must be strongly agitated to remove all the deep-down dirt! Of course we knew that already, but perhaps not many people realised the DC25 would excel in such a test!

 

[henrydreyfuss]

Hello everyone! I recently acquired a Dyson DC17 that needed a few parts. The brushbar bearings were shot, and the belt was ruined. The gasket on the bottom of the cyclone assembly had moved up from repeated aggressive dump lid slammings. This let dirt right into the cyclones, packing them with filth. It was two years old, but you could tell it had seen some use.

I replaced the Cyclones, brushbar, and belt, and cleaned it up. I noticed the replacement cyclone assembly is different from the original design. There is only one center cyclone, surrounded by smaller cyclones (similar to their fancy canisters). I think the original cyclone setup had a couple cyclones in the center. The gasket on the bottom of the new assembly seems very serious, and I don't think it'll get pushed up over time.

Build quality issues aside, I am incredibly impressed with the DC17. It deep cleans much better than the majority of the Dyson range. The nozzle isn't loaded with vents to leak suction, so it seals pretty well to the carpet! It's got much more airflow than the DC07 or DC14 (it'll pull small rugs around, and devour them if you're not careful). The stiff stubby brushes vibrate the nap back to life. The amount of crud I sweep up continues to astonish me.

I've used the Dyson for hardcore cleaning, and for pretty extreme attachment use (I'm using it to clean out my dusty basement... a huge job). I've sucked up the most disgusting soot that vacuum has probably ever seen, and the pre-motor filter doesn't have a speck of dirt on it. It's wonderful! It's really a revolutionary filtration setup.

One other thing I must note on the vacuum are the tools. They're an absolute delight! I love being able to go all the way up my hardwood stairs with the attachment hose, without having to take the sweeper along with me, or grab an extension. The wand is nice and long, and comfortable to hold and use. The actual attachments that are on the sweeper are well designed (unfortunately I don't have the extra tools it normally comes with). The hose connects at the bottom (like all Dyson uprights), so it doesn't tip over while your cleaning (a huge plus).

Overall I really like the DC17. It's fun to use, and as an added plus it does a surprisingly good job on bare floors! It's one of the few vacuums I have that I can take around my entire house and clean everything, top to bottom.

 

[kirbyman89]

Polish a turd it's still a turd!

 

[vintagehoover]

Thanks for that mature and insightful comment, Adam. Why don't you run along and let the grown-ups talk now - maybe someone will find you some shapes to play with?

 

[kirbyotronic]

How ignorant and biased was that comment posted above.......

Alex

 

[vintagehoover]

Aww, he's just cranky because he ate all his crayons.

 

[kirbyotronic]

Hehe ;P

Personally I'm open to all brands, and I only share my negative opinions on it, only if the machine truly deserves a negative review! I used to hate Dysons (I had used a DC14 when I had that opinion), but I tried some of the newer models and really liked them. The DC17, DC28, and DC25 are great cleaners, they are my favorites out of the Dyson range. I also have a DC16 hand-held that I bought second hand for cheap and I love it! I do plan on adding an upright soon, hopefully.

Alex

 

[shanonabc]

I was wondering why share values in Crayola had went up...

 

[sleepdoc]

DC18

Jack, thanks to your posted video on the DC18, I decided to get some to give to people for Christmas. I ordered three, gave away two of them late last night after work, and am probably gonna lose the fight against keeping the third myself. The DC18 is a really neat machine. It cleans well, and it's a bit taller than the DC25, so I can actually use it comfortably. Thanks again for the great video!

 

[rolls_rapide]

"I've sucked up the most disgusting soot...pre-moto

That is a very good sign of improvement.

I have used Dyson's 'Dual Cyclone' DC03, and 'Root Cyclone' DC11 to suck up soot. In both cases the filters got totally overloaded.

 

[vintagehoover]

Hi Patrick! Wow, even I've never bought 3 new Dysons at once - two in one week, though! I'm sure the recipients of your generous gifts will appreciate them!

I do like the DC18 a lot. I know it's a bad reason to like a cleaner, and Dyson would shoot me for saying it, but it just LOOKS cool! Form is dictated by function, the product was designed around the technology, blah blah blah - but it has great aesthetic appeal too! And of course, it works brilliantly.

The DC24 is smaller and lighter, but I think the DC18's a better all-rounder, especially since it has a proper full-length hose and wand, as well as being more powerful. It's low enough in profile to get under most furniture, too, which has never been one of Dyson uprights' strong points!

 

[vintagehoover]

...

 

[ohio_tuec]

I am not a fan of Dysons, only because of my negative experiences with their customer service department, performance and price. Like every other brand, Dyson has its niche audience. I think Sir James Dyson unfairly gouges unassuming U.S. customers. Perhaps if he would "level the playing field" and sell customers the U.K. dollar equivalent here in the U.S., maybe more people would own them. Sad thing is, you think you are buying U.K. quality, and nowadays, they are made in Malaysia. As of now, they are the most expensive bagless on the market, and with the shape the economy is in, everybody is looking for the best value. I own two - a DC07, and a DC15 "the ball" animal. I spend half what a new Dyson would cost getting the DC07 repaired, and I feel both have too aggressive a brushroll such that it tears up the fibers of the carpet. Maybe they're improved since the DC15, but until I find one thrown out, I'll have to wait and see for myself.

 

[shanonabc]

How about the AU Market?

Lets look at the prices of a 23 Motorhead with exchange rates right now...

UK price is £332.76
US price is $599 US
AU price is $1099 AU

For the sake of argument lets convert them all into UK pricing...
UK £332.76
US £368.84
AU £606.84

I think the US prices sound rather fair at around £30 over the UK price?

 

[vintagehoover]

'..too aggressive a brushroll such that it tears up the fibers of the carpet'

The rest of the US complain that the DC07/DC14 brushroll is too wimpy and ineffective, so Dyson phases it out...and you think it's too aggressive?

 

[shanonabc]

As for the AU pricing it is fair on our market, It is similar to other high end machines.

Forgot to put that point in

 

[kirbyman89]

I can speak for myself that every Dyson I've ever used had SOMETHING wrong with it or it was hard to push. And by the way, at least I have the Sentria with the damn metal fan in it, Normal/Delicate switch AND it will break your Dyson's spine into like a potato chip! Oh and at least I know what works and gets the job done RIGHT and will last longer than all the Dysons put together so there! Take one of you middle fingers and shove it up your @ss and shove the other in your mouth and ROTAte them!! SUCK ON THAT BIZMITCH! ROTFLMFAO

 

[kirbyman89]

I can speak for myself that every Dyson I've ever used had SOMETHING wrong with it or it was hard to push. And by the way, at least I have the Sentria with the damn metal fan in it, Normal/Delicate switch AND it will break your Dyson's spine into like a potato chip! Oh and at least I know what works and gets the job done RIGHT and will last longer than all the Dysons put together so there! Take one of your middle fingers and shove it up your @ss and shove the other in your mouth and ROTATE them!! SUCK ON THAT BIZMITCH! ROTFLMFAO

 

[kirbyotronic]

"I can speak for myself that every Dyson I've ever used had SOMETHING wrong with it or it was hard to push."

-Turn the Tech-Drive off on your G series Kirby and try to push it, if it's even possible!-.

"And by the way, at least I have the Sentria with the damn metal fan in it, Normal/Delicate switch AND it will break your Dyson's spine into like a potato chip! Oh and at least I know what works and gets the job done RIGHT and will last longer than all the Dysons put together so there!"

-So you had to modify your Kirby to make it clean to an acceptable degree? I assume you ignored the picture of a full grown 100+lb man standing on a tiny vacuum cleaner, or all of the ignorance was causing you vision problems.-

"Take one of your middle fingers and shove it up your @ss and shove the other in your mouth and ROTATE them!! SUCK ON THAT BIZMITCH! ROTFLMFAO"

-Ppppppppplease grow up and do not unleash your perverted thoughts on a vacuum collecting forum!-

Just my two watts worth....

Alex

 

[shanonabc]

Gee... Those crayons are making Adam hallucinate!

Wouldn't you agree Alex