Dyson: Can they really live up to what they say?

[DysonAnimal]

'..any fool can clearly see...'

I stated:

'Following that logic, I guess an Oreck will outclean the Kirby?'

You said you liked the Oreck brushroll, but you didn't say that you felt the Oreck outcleaned the Kirby. Why? Because there's more to cleaning carpet than the brushroll alone, which was the point I was trying to make.

And yes, if you imply I'm a fool for having a different opinion to you, I will respond in kind.

I'm not censoring your opinion or anyone else's. If there was only one way to make a brushroll, why doesn't every manufacturer use the same one?

 

[kirby16]

Lets beak it up, guys.

 

[DysonAnimal]

Nothing to break up!

If someone shares an opinion - that's wonderful and very welcome, but others have the right to ask 'Why? What leads you to that conclusion?'. Particularly if that opinion is being presented as unquestionable fact.

The last thing I'd ever want is to censor or stifle discussion on this forum, but if I'd started a thread saying 'I've done some tests, and Dyson is DEFINITELY better than Kirby', or 'Dyson is the best of all the vacuum cleaners', I don't think people would have stayed quiet about that. The word 'lynch-mob' springs to mind...

I don't generally take criticism personally, but if someone says 'this is clearly better, and only a fool can't see that', yes, that's making things personal! I don't care whether the majority of the forum agrees with me or not; I don't care that I'm sticking up for the underdog. But I will put my point across.

 

[DysonAnimal]

And for the record...

...Chris, if I offended you with my sarcasm I apologise.

 

[kirby16]

OK, got it, Dyson Animal. Just it kinda sounded a little bit like a fight.

 

[DysonAnimal]

Nope, no fight.

I'm withdrawing from this discussion, you're all free to say what you like!

 

[kirby16]

@DysonAnimal: You dont have to go, i was enjoying your opinions.
And i forgot to mention one more test: Durability. THis test plays a HUGE rol in vacuums. The Kirby is made of high-grade aluminum. If you kock it into a wall, the wall needs repairing. The dyson was made out of cheap plastic. If you knock it ino a wall, the vac needs repairing.
Kirbys can last up to 70 years , or longer. I have a D-50 that i use almost every other day. Dysons usually last 5-10 years, based on whatother people say.

 

[turbo500]

Don't worry, Jack - I think we both got the wrong end of each others point, and I certainly didn't intend to imply you're a fool.

ANYWAY, back to the actual point of the conversation...

I agree that the deep cleaning performance of a machine does depend on a number of factors, but IMO, the brushroll is one of the biggest of those. Even a carpet sweeper can remove surface dust and dirt and I think we would all agree that the machines known for their deep cleaning ability are the ones with thick, dense, relatively stiff bristles. The suction is obviously another factor, and I've said before, I have no issues with the suction power of Dyson cleaners, just the messy emptying, filter washing (both being unfortunately unavoidable) and brushroll (which is why I prefer Dyson's cylinder machines to the uprights).I would certainly like to see a brushroll more in the style of a Kirby, Oreck or Sebo brushroll as these have all proved for years that they do groom the carpet to a very high standard. The short, sparse bristles are not for me, I'm afraid.

Having said that, one does have to bear in mind the current market. In the UK, thick carpets are out and hard-wearing, low pile carpet and laminate floors are in, obviously eliminating the need for such a deep cleaning brushroll. On the other end of that scale, many people did buy very good quality deep pile carpets and have not replaced these (my Mum and several friends parents, for example, still have carpets fitted in the 70's and 80's). Perhaps Dyson could develop and market a specific machine specifically designed for homes with thicker carpet with a more dense brushroll? Sort of like the animal, all floors, allergy etc variations on the same model, a Dyson "deep clean" would certainly have a market I think.

 

[kirby16]

I agree

I highly agree, turbo500. But i just dont really like orecks. You said their suction is terrible, but i dont know since ive never used an oreck. So i guess their TV ad is false advertising!

 

[turbo500]

Kirbys can last up to 70 years..

..yes, but that is the difference between paying £2000 and £200 for a vacuum cleaner.

Kirby16, as much as I agree with you in regards to the performance and durability, testing a Dyson against a Kirby is like comparing a 3 course lobster dinner with a pot noodle. You pay for the Kirby to last 70 years. If I was to pay almost £2000 for a vacuum, I'd expect it last that long, and clean the house by itself whilst I sat with my feet up and a cocktail.

You really need to compare the Dyson with an opposite cleaner in the same price range - a Sebo, Miele S7 or Vax Mach (Hoover US, I believe, although Jack will be able to confirm if that is within the same market price range).

 

[turbo500]

Kirby16, Oreck don't have very good suction at all. The brushroll is about the only thing it has going for it. It DOES pick up surface litter as demonstrated on shopping channels and infomercials etc, but it is VERY dependant on the brushroll and leaves a lot allergens, dust mites and dust mite excrement behind due to the lack of suction

 

[kirby16]

FALSE ADVERTISING!

Yeah, on the TV commercials, they talk about how great an orecks suction is. (Have you seen the one where the lady is sidewys an holding onto a telephone pole?)

 

[Sablekid]

I think the fact that Kirby (and Royal) has not changed the basic principles of the vacuum in YEARS of business should say something about them vs. others.

 

[kirbyotronic]

"And i forgot to mention one more test: Durability. THis test plays a HUGE rol in vacuums. The Kirby is made of high-grade aluminum. If you kock it into a wall, the wall needs repairing."

Well......actually, aluminum shatters. Have you ever seen a Kirby nozzle with one end of it completely busted off? I have, quite a few times.

 

[hoovercelebrity]

You know what?

It would be wonderful if this "Kirby16" -- who is from somewhere in Billings, Montana -- grew a pair and put a real name, an actual email address, and filled in their profile --BEFORE-- stirring up shit on this forum and trying to pick a fight (like you predict, Jack).

I mean, really.

**rolls eyes**

 

[kirby16]

Nevr knew that. Im gonna have to be more careful with my older kirbys. Could you post a pic of what that looks like?

 

[kirbyeureka95]

i didnt take the time to read the argument so i may repeat s

the brushroll pictured is from a dc07, not a new machine, and the new ones are much different, and the dyson bristles are alot stiffer than the ones on any of my kirbies ( i havent tried one of kirbies pet brushrolls)

 

[sleepdoc]

Variables

In any scientific field, "any fool" knows that experiments/"tests" control for variables. Those brush roll photos support no conclusion beside the brush rolls' being distinct. They function in entirely different systems. How that system functions overall is not determinable on the basis of one variable. "Any fool can see..." and its equivalents consistently are silencing assertions that attempt to persuade to conclusions that actually lack data.

I have large collections of Kirby and Dyson vacuums, and I like both makes. I think they have comparative strengths and weaknesses. I have observations, but those observations don't constitute conclusions, let alone mechanisms.

 

[powertank]

Kirby16, don't worry about it. Unless you smash vacuums into walls repeatedly for fun, the nozzle won't crack or bend. One time we got a Royal in from a mental health center and I thought it was a bit ironic as the front of the nozzle was bent inwards a good 1- 1 1/2 inches. They must have some seriously damaged walls!

For my .02, I would agree that the brushroll has a lot to do with it. My biggest beef with Dyson is their brushrolls- they have gotten better over time, but they still are very poorly made. Kirby brushrolls groom better, I think most unbiased people here would admit that.

Secondly, airflow has a lot to do with things. Kirbys move a lot more volume of air, but at a lower vacuum pressure, than Dysons do. In general, it is better to have a higher CFM fan in an upright than to pull more inches of water. That's why Kirbys tend to deep clean so well- the huge volume of air rushing in comes from the surrounding carpet.

Kirbys have nice large bags with a lot of surface area, so they don't lose suction as much as other bagged vacuums. Dysons use the best bagless technology around, they're easy to empty and their suction remains constant for the most part. In that regard both Kirbys and Dysons excell.

I guess you're just comparing overall cleaning effectiveness, but I think it's a little hard to compare them. They're apples and oranges, really, besides the fact that they are both upright vacuums.

 

[kirby16]

Due to HooverCeelebrity's offensive post, i will not be posting in the vacuumland forums ever again. Goodbye, everyone.