Do hepa vacuums stay hepa

[kirbykid63]

Hi all today i was watching a utube video about miele vacuum's high filtration. The salesman used a dust meter to measure the amount of dust escaping from a new kenmore hepa canister, then a miele Capricorn canister. The miele put out zero emissions after a few seconds, this is very impressive to some one who doesn't work on vacuums but in my experience after any vacuum is used the dust will escape from the bag and will deposit inside the fans and motor. This dust will soon start filling the filter and then escape back into the air thus making this expensive vacuum no more clean running over time then the less expensive kenmore.
The moral to this story is vacuum often and change your bags and filters often and get your vacuum serviced and cleaned often to keep dust levels low in your vacuum.

 

[danemodsandy]

Something to Remember About HEPA:

For the average person, HEPA is much more of a sales tool than a needed feature. What HEPA filtration does is to filter out extremely fine particulates, such as the droppings from dust mites. Those droppings are only one-twentieth the size of the mites themselves, and they are what cause the dread "dust mite" allergic reaction, not the mites. For people with allergies like this, HEPA makes sense.

But for most of us who have healthy immune systems and no major allergies, HEPA is not really needed, it's very expensive, and it doesn't really do much for you. Allergy sufferers typically have their houses set up with the least possible amount of dust-catching material (no rugs, etc.), and they vacuum a lot (and very thoruoughly), because they have to or they can't breathe. Most of us have much more typical houses, with wall-to-wall carpeting, lots of upholstered furniture, and plenty of stuff to catch dust. Vacuuming this kind of environment thoroughly takes much more time and effort than most people can (or will) devote to it.

And guess what? If you don't vacuum everything - very well - then you might as well not vacuum at all, from the standpoint of getting the "benefits" of HEPA. You may have gotten every last particle off the coffee table, but if you don't vacuum under the sofa (and every bit of the sofa, including the black fabric underneath it that hides the springs), you're still leaving particulate matter in the room. Added to this is the absolute impossibility of getting every last bit of particulate matter out of carpeting; how many times have we all tried a new vacuum on carpet we thought was being cleaned properly, and found dust the old cleaner had missed?

With all that in mind, I'm glad for allergy sufferers that HEPA is available. But most people don't really need it, and won't really avail themselves of its benefits anyway, because they aren't that hell-bent on vacuuming thoroughly. So why spend the money?

 

[williamr1248]

Do Hepa vacuums stay hepa?

I agree with Sandy. Just because a vacuum advertises as Hepa may indicate what the "HEPA" FILTER will trap but if the vacuum is not sealed properly it can still spew a lot of fine dust. I also saw an advertisement saying their machine exhaustes air that is 150 times cleaner than the air in your house. Now that seems like a useless claim. Who's house and it could be 150 times cleaner and still be dumping dirt back in the air.
I really noticed the difference in vacuums spewing dust after we moved into the new house. I can't see why anyone would want to spend time cleaning and just have to start all over the next day with fine dust on the furniture and blinds and every surface of the room.
Some of the vacs I have that "seem" to do a better job at filtering and oders are:
(I am basing this on no dust in bag compartment and no oder and no dust on filters. These may not be what I consider the BEST at picking up or my FAVORITE to use vacs)
(1) Hoover Connie with Hepa bag
(2) H2o turbo water vac
(3) Air-Ways
(4) Kirby with hepa bag
(5) Oreck XL (hate that machine)
)
Some of my worst offenders:
(1) Hoover 28
(2) Hoover Spirit Canister (love the vac)
(3) Electrolux (just smells after a couple of uses)
(4) Older Kirby with cloth bag
(5) Grandma's Hoover Concept One (but it does pick up fast)
One of the worst was a new machine I got that the hepa bag seemed ok but the hepa filter was dirty after only a couple of uses and the machines had an oder only after 2-3 uses.

 

[samotronic]

Another offender - Hoover Anniversary "convertible&quot

One of the worst offenders that I have seen is the new Hoover Anniversary "Convertible" aka Saavy. This has a hepa filter and I use the hepa bags, but still smell dust when I use it, dust accumulates on the outside of the bag canister and the best indication, my contact lenses are instantly uncomfortable. I also have an original Saavy which, unlike most users, I have liked very much and it is absolutely great at filtration. I did try the bag canister from the Saavy on the HAC and it definitely fit more securely than the one that came with it and minimized the emissions but did not eliminate it. The emissions come out of the bag compartment before they ever hit the hepa filter.

 

[williamr1248]

Do Hepa vacuums stay hepa?

I wasn't going to bring it up again but since you did-I had the same problem with my Anniversary Hoover Convertible.The Hepa bag WILL NOT stay attached to the tube. Hense the second you turn the vacuum on you have dust all in the container and on the hepa filter. I took mine to a Hoover repair station and their fix was to use regular bags (which did work) but now you have defeated the purpose of buying a $249.00 hepa machine. I had the same problem in reverse with the canister. It will work with the hepa bag but not the regular Hoover bags which the instruction book tells you will work.
If we vacuum nuts can't get it to work can you imagine what happens when a regular buyer tries to get these to work. This is a basic design flaw.I have had no trouble with the Windtunnel or new Constelations just the Convertible and canister models.

 

[kirbyboy1]

What makes me mad is that everybdoy complains about hepa. Well if it wasnt for hepa alot of people couldnt use the same vacuum. Everybdoy here knmows that miele is probably one of the best vacuums on earth for canister. Filter queen has filtration 3 times as good as hepa. Now are you going to complain that some companys actually care about how well there machines work. Look at kirby. Nobody gripes about them but in my opinion they are the worst vacuum ever. There no where near hepa. The bags may be hepa material but how the design is set up there are 3 seals on that machine. Watch the video the dirt comes right out of the tube. There is no seal between the fill tube or the bag. no seal=air leak. Everybody knows that.

Hepa filters changed that vacuum industry forever. Those filters trap more dust and germs than a bag could ever. Filter queens use cellulose filter fiber cones. LYDAR medipure cones that removes odors. On my kirbys unless I use it everyday(with hepa bags). There is always a odor. With my filter queen never a odor. Yet on Kirbys website they say it helps eliminate odors. WHy make false claims? They need to sell a 2,600 dollar piece of metal.

Then Im told about how people dont like Filter Queen cause there all plastic. Then you hear how there to heavy. So what do you want durability or lightweight?

Then everybody complains about Dyson. Dysons are going to take over the retail store vac world. Kmart, Wal Mart, Sams Club, Sears and everywhere there are dyson vacuums. We all nead to realize. James Dyson reinvented the best thing on earth. THe cyclonic dirt seperation will be around more years then bags will ever be. Im sorry Im flipping out but people need to realize there will never be a perfect vacuum. Dont complain about them
Evan Strittmatter
Filter queen King
VCA member.

 

[vintagehoover]

Evan...

you've raised many points in your post - it seems there's more to your frustration than just the discussion in this thread.

I don't see the harm in healthy discussion about the pros and cons of different brands, models and features, as long as it's done fairly and respectfully. How would design and technology ever progress at all unless we looked critically at what existed already and tried to make improvements?

I don't think anyone was complaining about HEPA in a vindictive way - they were simply discussing the design flaws of some machines which reduce it's effectiveness. Unless the system is totally sealed, some allergens may escape, which is obviously frustrating for consumers who have paid extra for a HEPA-equipped machine. However, for people who don't suffer from allergy-related conditions, it may not matter at all. They should feel frustrated at being persuaded to pay extra for a feature they don't need.

Kirbykid63 also made the very valid point that unless you vacuum everything, everywhere, every time, you're not really removing all the allergens anyway. For people who suffer very badly from allergies, a vacuum cleaner with a high level of filtration is essential, but it's just one of the weapons in the battle against their condition.

People who suffer to that degree have to have their needs catered for, but filteration of that level is not necessary for many buyers. Allergies are used in the marketing of vacuum cleaners today much as the fear of germs and disease were back in the 1920s.

As far as Dyson is concerned, they have their good points and bad points, like any other machine - I should know, I have 9 of them. Like you say, there's no perfect cleaner, despite what some people may think. You also say on your profile that the Kirby VAC-U-ETTE cleans better than a Dyson - so perhaps Kmart, Wal Mart, Sams Club, Sears etc. should start stocking them instead?

Jack Copp
The Vintage Hoover Emporium
'Forget it, Jake - it's China Town...'

 

[kirbyboy1]

HMMMMMMM wasnt it you video on your carpet that a dyson dc03 pulled out alot of fluff and lint and grit from your carpet. HMMMMMMMM Maybe the dyson cleans better then say your daily driver. Who knows but I know facts dont lie.Any comment for that. That looks like alot of fluff that about 40 hoovers missed. Dont you think?

 

[electroluxxxx]

Jack that is a really nice machine you have there. though I have not seen one over here in the US yet. are they a good powerful unit??
Mike

 

[williamr1248]

Do Hepa vacuums stay hepa?

Evan,
I am missing your point. I DO like the hepa machines. The problem I had was a design problem where the machine would not operate as the maker claimed. I am going to complain when I paid $250.00 for a product that does not work.
I agree with you that there is no one "perfect" vacuum for everybody. If you are a tank person you will never be happy with an upright. I can see good points to almost every make machine. We were a 3 generation Air-Way family but now I have yards of carpeting so I prefer my Kirby.
I have always heard good things about the Filter Queen. The only drawback I have ever heard is that they are heavy and have a tendency to tip over. I didn't realize they were plastic. I would to like own a Filter Queen someday.
I think the only machine I really don't care for is the Oreck but there are vac collectors who really love them.
I liked the concept of the Dyson but it damaged my rugs. It was just too aggressive for my rugs. Hope this helps clear my post up a little for you.
Rob

 

[kirbyboy1]

I never wanted to get mad at you. I think your collection is awesome. Its just we all have to look at this. HEPA is a word that is in most vacuums today. Very few work but miele,sebo,filter queen,dyson and very few hoovers reallly have a sealed system. There are others out there but we need to realize that To some people a HEPA filter is needed.

 

[danemodsandy]

It's True!

If you need HEPA, then you need HEPA, and I'm glad it's there for those who do.

But one thing I've noticed about vacuum purchasers - particularly those who buy high-end direct-sales machines - is that they forget the most important thing about vacuum cleaners: You have to get behind them and push!

For a lot of people, buying a Filter Queen or Rainbow or TriStar or Lux Guardian or Miele is an expression of their ego, not their actual needs. I have a neighbour with a TriStar Mg2 - a $2600 machine. To say that her house isn't as clean as it could be is an understatement - you could grow crops in her carpet, I think. Evidently, her thinking was, if she bought the most expensive machine she could get her hands on, she'd contributed enough to the housekeeping effort by doing that. Actually using the thing is work, and I don't think she wants to get involved with that, LOL.

An awful lot of people out there subscribe to the Roseanne Barr school of vacuuming: "I ain't vacuuming until Sears comes out with one you can ride!"

 

[kirbyboy1]

Yes I know. I gave my neighbor a FIlter queen majestic. She never uses it. I use it every time I go over. She obiously doesnt care.

 

[kirbykid63]

my point is

My point is in my experiance of dissembling and repairing machines I find that they all seem to build up dust in their motors and fans so I don't believe hepa vacuums stay hepa for long.

Richard

 

[vintagehoover]

Evan, if all your posts are going to be in the same tone as your reply above, I won't bother trying to have a sensible discussion with you. I didn't say anything to provoke that kind of sarcasm. Lighten up and stop being so defensive.

Since the DC03 wasn't sold in the US, I'll assume you've never used one, and can't relate any personal experience of their performance. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

The DC03 has a small 700w motor, which generates 90aw. Compare this to - for example - a DC07 or DC14, which each generate 280aw. Also, the brush-roll is quite poor. In my experience, I've found the round brush-roll, as used on the DC07/14 Origin models, performs much better.

The DC03 in the video had already been used to clean my whole house when I shot that video. The amount of fluff in the canister is what it managed to pull out of all the rooms, not just the living room, where I made the film. And these were rooms I hadn't cleaned in a week, not one I'd just gone over with a 'daily driver'. To reiterate, it wasn't empty when I started filming, and it wasn't picking up 'what 40 Hoovers had missed' (which implies I used 40 consecutively beforehand...rest assured I did not!). My videos represent various brands and models from different points in vacuum cleaner history, and show people what they look and sound like in use. They're not intended as scientific performance comparisons.

In future, please don't try to throw 'facts' at me when you don't know what they are.

 

[electroluxxxx]

thank you jack for the info on the dc03 it really is an intresting model
mike

 

[vintagehoover]

Hi Mike,

here's some more pictures of the DC03 Clear. I've posted them in a new thread so this one doesn't go any further off topic.

http://www.vacuumland.org/TD/THREADS/MODERN/5069x6.htm

 

[tolivac]

Do "Hepa" vacuums stay HEPA? for "Home" type machines may be questionable with use.esp ones with plastic bodies.remember plastic ages and as it does-it warps or cracks.and depends on the care given to the machine by the user.the bags and filters MUST be changed according to the manufatuerrs schedules.and of course-yes the machine has to be used.
I don't consider ANY bagless vacuum cleaner to be HEPA--Why?anytime you open and empty the dirt cup-all of that fine dust and dirt you just picked up got disperesed into the air again--unless you emptied the container outdoors into the trash.--or if in the country out in the woods somewhere.also ANY bagless machines i have seen brought into any of the vac places I go to ARE A MESS!Bodies very dusty and dirty-I don't think that is "HEPA" no matter what the vac builder says about the machine.Last week I saw the DIRTIEST Dyson you could ever see-A DC18-the machine was brought in by a woman whose family members use the machine in turn-she has a "duty roster" in her home for the family members to follow-I had to do that as a kid-was good-you can learn housekeeping duties that way-but the machine I saw was ABUSED.the vac store owner convinced her to buy another Dyson vacuum-a rebuilt DC07.Her DC18 got trashed-the body was cracked in many places-so the air flow was poor-and the dust cup filter gasket and gasket seat was broken buy a user banging the end of the dirt cup on the edge of the garbage can to get all of the dirt out of the container.she said she would take care of the vacuuming duties when she took the DC-07 home she just bought.Good idea she was convinced by the vac store owner and myself to do that.--or at least teach the other users how to properly empty the dirt cup.and on the dyson filters-when I did use the few models I have-I just REPLACED the filter rather than trying to wash it out.Better to treat them as disposable than washing them-esp if you have pets.You can sure tell ANY bagless vac that came from a pet houshold-it SMELLS like the pet!

 

[williamr1248]

Do hepa vacs stay hepa

Rex,
You brought some vary valid points. A lot depends on how a machine is cared for and used. Sometimes we collectors forget how in real life most machines are treated,abused and never cleaned out.
I had this proven to me when several years ago I visited a club member and spent just one day in his shop and watched customers bring in their machines for repair. It was shocking to see the condition of the machines. Some expensive and some cheap but all stuffed with dirt.
I have the same concern with the bagless machines that you brought up. How can ANY machine be a good choice for someone sensitive to dust if they have to open it up and dump the dirt?
Of the machines I have in my collection I think several like the Electrolux,Air-Way,Oreck seem to have better bags for not inhaling the dirt when handling the bags. This doesn't indicate to me that these would be the "best" vacuums but I don't seem to be exposed to the dirt when changing their dust containers.
Also I have a H2o Turbo TV vac that I love and is one of the most fun to use and there is NO dirt anywhere on the machine or filter BUT this is an example of a vac that would NOT last if it were not taken care of properly. If a vacuum is going into a household with several users and a lot of abuse it'spretty hard to beat the old metal Hoover Convertibles or Electrolux and Kirbys. In the end its a question of personal choice. As a collector I enjoy them all! As another vac collector posted a while back-He never knew anyone to die from a little vacuum dust. I was very allergic when I was small,but I grew out of it and still mess with old vacuums.
Glad to have made so many friends in the club!