Current canister vacuums

[sebo_fan]

How is the weight of a power head even comparable to the wei

From what I can gather, although power head added canisters appears to be lighter from their smaller footprint, it is the ratio in which the weight of the vacuum is determined by the actual power head and tubes rather than using a canister for above the floor cleaning.

The Sebo floor head in question that I use, is the ET-H - That weighs 2kg on its own. Now, if you were to buy comparative bags of sugar - try tying that onto a pole and see how easy it is to shift around! It ain't easy but the SEBO head is easier to float because of its wheels underneath. I totally understand that not all power heads are heavy - but the SEBO's mechanism with the cord built into the exclusive metal telescopic tubing compared to their cord-without-tubes is also heavier. You then have the extra heavy weight of the 1.8 hose which also has an embedded cord built into it compared to the hose without on lower priced models.

With floor head added, plus the tubes you're looking at an overall weight factor with the Sebo K3 Premium totalling 8kg - about the standard weight of an upright vacuum. Go beyond that and yes, the canister idea is probably still going to be even lighter than average upright vacuums - not necessarily Kirby which I think is a bit extreme to compare.

Henry Hound models that use their power heads also have a heavier suction tube and bulkier hose, because an electric element runs through it. Whilst the procedure is seamless for cleaning, the use of the hose independently is bulkier and heavier.

You ask how I clean stairs? See the promo pic of Sebo X upright - I do similar and I also have an extra hose available, so even if I have to go further, the upright can either be lifted to one more step or tag another hose on. You could well argue and say that the extra hoses can't be stored on the machine like ones you get with the canister - but then again, not many canisters allow you to put on any other cleaning accessory other than the default small suction only cleaning tools.

 

[tolivac]

Like Sandy,I will vacuum everything I can with the dusting tool on one of my canisters.I have plenty to choose from-including a TriStar CXL I bought new years ago.All of my canisters get their turn.Presntly its a Riccar 1700 and the Sebo D4.I can use the Kirby Dust bush on the Riccar-works really well on it.and of course the giant soft dust brush that Riccar provides-use that on the TV screen.I save the Big soft brush just for the TV.For the carpets-its the Sanitaires turn.Give the Kirbys and Royals a rest.Next upright may be the Koblentz.I would like to see if the Sanitaire ST bag assembly fits it.Like the ST bags better than the F&G ones.I did buy a CASE of F&G bags (Eureka) from the swap shop in chocowinity-I go there regularly-you never know what Mr Mayo finds.He pointed out the box of bags to me.

 

[danemodsandy]

RS:

While I don't have a photo to offer, I can tell you what I use for stairs.

I have an American Electrolux 1205 from 1973, with an Electrolux Sidekick, a miniature power nozzle introduced some years later. The Sidekick attaches directly to the end of the electrified hose.

This combination means that stair carpet can be vacuumed and brushed in one go, very quickly. I find it very convenient.

The Sidekick attaches as quickly and easily as the dusting brush or any other above-the-floor tool. It's also great for vacuuming up pet hair on upholstered furniture; even the messiest divan or chair can be cleaned in one pass. The Sidekick's brush roll is nicely aggressive, so it really fluffs and grooms carpet.

 

[sebo_fan]

Well I'm just offering a response to your upright theory. Also does the sidekick store on the machine itself or any part of the hose when not in use? I don't tend to use stair cleaning tools unless I'm cleaning for someone. My normal stairs aren't very high and I just use the T shaped suction-only upholstery tool to do the carpets.

I've also lived with canister vacuums and they are easier to use on stairs due to their shapes - but again that detracts the viewpoint of the actual larger main floor head that is powered. Canisters are therefore far more versatile, but they involve a lot of changing this, changing that - uprights don't have that problem, reversing the need to change up unless you have a model that doesn't have a brush roll on/off on the main floor head.

 

[danemodsandy]

RS:

On vintage American Electroluxes, only the dusting brush is stored on the canister itself, though more recent machines and other makes offer on-board storage. With my Electroluxes, I use a plastic cleaning supplies caddy to hold each cleaner's tools; very convenient to carry around.

The only things I change on my canister are the same things one would change on an upright. If I want to do above-the-floor cleaning, I remove the power nozzle and fit whatever tool I want for the job at hand. If I want to vacuum a hard floor, that can be done with the power nozzle, or I can fit the floor tool. It's not fiddly to me, but perhaps others see it differently.

 

[eurekaprince]

Sandy, your preference for canisters is of course your personal opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it.

But there are other vacuum fanatics like me who do indeed see the benefits of upright vacuum cleaners. My personal belief is that the attempt to combine the two kinds of vacuum cleaner into one has never been that successful. I believe that a home can be served better by two vacuums: an upright to clean carpets, and a canister to clean everything else. I usually start cleaning a room with my canister - starting from high places like dusting the top of bookeshelves and ending up at the bottom like cleaning under the bed and dusting the baseboards. I finish off the room by using the upright. For daily cleaning of high traffic areas, a quick once over with my Hoover upright is the most efficient way to get the job done well and fast.

As I mentioned before, my personal feelings are as follows.

Canisters can not clean carpets as well as uprights for the following reasons:
1. The electrified hoses are far too heavy.
2. The pistol grip or gas pump handles are far too bulky to allow them to squeeze into tight spaces
3. You can't easily clean from the far end of the room and procede backwards towards the door or entryway as you have to constantly move the canister backwards out of your way.
4. I disagree that canister power nozzles can clean that much farther under beds than an upright. Most canisters don't allow you to put the wands and nozzle flat to the carpet to get far under the beds - the nozzle rises up and it stops contacting the carpet. If I don't want to move the bed, I need to use a regular canister's tool like a regular carpet nozzle or upholstery nozzle to reach far under the bed - the power nozzle can not do the job anyway.
5. According to Consumer Reports, there are very few canisters with power nozzles that rate an "excellent" in deep carpet cleaning of medium pile carpets. There are far more uprights that get this "excellent" mark.

No need to repeat the long list of reasons supporting the idea that uprights don't offer the convenience of a canister for above-the-floor cleaning: short hoses, inconvenient "carpet to tool" conversion set-ups, dangerous spinning brushes that can damage toes and fingers and flooring and other surfaces while in "tool mode", uprights that can easily tip over when cleaning in "tool" mode, weak airflow through the hose, etc.

I disagree with your comment that uprights are heavy. There are many lightweight uprights that way under 20 pounds that clean carpets with excellence. My Hoover Tempo Widepath weighs only 16 pounds.

Again, it's all a matter of personal preference. Many vacuum fanatics swear by the benefits of a Rainbow canister. I could not see myself dealing with a tank-ful of dirty water every time I finished cleaning my home.

 

[eurekaprince]

sorry....."weigh under 20 pounds" - not "way"

 

[danemodsandy]

Brian:

As you say, much of this issue is a matter of preference. But I think some of your defense of your preference doesn't quite match up to my experience or observations:

You say: Canisters can not clean carpets as well as uprights for the following reasons:

1. The electrified hoses are far too heavy.

I am puzzled as to how the weight of a hose might affect cleaning ability. A hose is a hollow tube through which air passes. Whether that tube weighs one pound or fifty is immaterial; the diameter of the hose and the airflow through it are what would seem to have an effect on cleaning ability.

2. The pistol grip or gas pump handles are far too bulky to allow them to squeeze into tight spaces

I am no fan of gas pump handles; they're clunky and awkward. I've never had any difficulty getting a pistol grip handle anywhere I needed it to go. I also note the presence of grips on the hoses of uprights.

3. You can't easily clean from the far end of the room and procede backwards towards the door or entryway as you have to constantly move the canister backwards out of your way.

Granted. This is one of the quirks of canisters. Every design has its quirks, and different designs offer trade-offs with each other. Rear-wheel drive cars are cheaper to make and repair, but they're awful in snow. Front-wheel drive cars are much better in snow, but repair costs are higher. It's like that with vacs - some canisters can do things some uprights have trouble with.


4. I disagree that canister power nozzles can clean that much farther under beds than an upright. Most canisters don't allow you to put the wands and nozzle flat to the carpet to get far under the beds - the nozzle rises up and it stops contacting the carpet. If I don't want to move the bed, I need to use a regular canister's tool like a regular carpet nozzle or upholstery nozzle to reach far under the bed - the power nozzle can not do the job anyway.

Depends on your power nozzle. Some are designed so that giving the handle a twist allows the power nozzle to go completely flat to the floor, in a straight line with the handle - Kenmore PNs do this. Straight-suction floor and rug tools can do this, too, if they're designed to swivel. It is true that not every manufacturer's tools do this easily, and some don't do it at all. Not every upright has the same features as every other, either.

5. According to Consumer Reports, there are very few canisters with power nozzles that rate an "excellent" in deep carpet cleaning of medium pile carpets. There are far more uprights that get this "excellent" mark.

If someone chooses a brand with poorer cleaning ability, I don't see that as an overall indictment of canisters, merely an indication that some people don't do their homework. Would you say that the performance of a $19 Dirt Devil stick from Wal-Mart is equal to the performance of a Kirby Sentria?

As you and others here have correctly noted, uprights have the largest market share, and I think it's fair to say that more design dollars can be spent on them as a result. With the exception of Miele, no canister manufacturer is doing very much at present to innovate, because only Miele seems to have sales growth in this segment. And that's not good, because it means that canisters can't get better until manufacturers care about making them better, which won't happen until they see the possibility of profit. But good canisters, like a TriStar CXL? I'll put mine up against any upright out there, because I have seen the thing pull up dirt a Kirby missed, and extend the time between steam cleanings of off-white carpet dramatically.

 

[isufan11]

IMHO

In My Humble Opinion I sue both, for daily runs or a quick tidy up before unexpected company I use an upright, for me it is just easier to plug in and rush around in a hurry. When I have time to do floor to ceiling cleaning I prefer a canister, to me they just seem so much more nimble to get into tight spaces. I personally feel that the weight of the vacuum has nothing to do with how well it will clean, I feel it is all about the suction. I have a Eureka whirlwind that weighs upwards of 20 pounds and it has no suction compared to my Kenmore Canister.

Now my mom is 100% opposite of me they have a Beam Central Vac with he hideaway hose that goes into the walls so it is more than convenient and she refuses to use it, would use her Riccar Radiance, even on the wood floors.

 

[eurekaprince]

Yes Sandy - the design of an electified hose and handle for a power nozzle canister should not have been listed as affecting cleaning ability. It should have been listed as making above-the-floor cleaning less convenient. It is far easier to use the lightweight and simple hoses of suction-only canisters for above-the-floor cleaning. Sorry for the confusion....

By trying to make a canister clean carpets as well as an upright, you end up with designs that make it less convenient to do above the floor cleaning. Cleaning an entire bookcase with the lightweight hose and long sleek hose-handle of my suction-only canister, is a far less tiring job than using the heavy electrified hose and gas-pump handle of my mom's Kenmore Progressive power nozzle canister. And sneaking my canister's sleek hose handle behind my toaster oven in the kitchen is far easier to do than with the bulky Kenmore handle. It would be even worse now that Kenmore has added tool storage compartments to the handle on their new canister models. Of course, Dyson has really made it a chore to clean book-cases or car interiors with their power nozzle canisters, because you can not disconnect the telescopic wand from the hose and must use it whenever you clean.

To me, it makes very little sense to try and redesign a canister vac to accommodate an electric power nozzle. You lose too much of the convenience of a canister vac. And there are often problems with electrical connections failing in the hose and wands and power nozzle. I'd much prefer to have 2 separate vacs.

 

[danemodsandy]

Jon:

My own strategy for those quick pick-ups is a good old-fashioned carpet sweeper from the Fuller Brush Company. Excellent pickup, and fast as can be.

Note that this sweeper is the No. 101 sweeper with twin brush rolls, not the No. 100 commercial model with vinyl rotor blades. The commercial unit is intended for quick pickup of wet messes in restaurants, and doesn't perform all that well on home carpet.

And, I freely admit, both are uprights. ;-)

 

[danemodsandy]

Brian:

I could NOT agree with you MORE about gas-pump handles. They are bulky, clunky and very possibly the work of a Satanic cult wanting to give us all a preview of Hell while we're still here on Earth. In other words, I hate 'em.

The current TOL Kenmore canisters are "featurism" run amok, I feel. You know what I mean, some designer out of any real ideas says, "Let's add a FEATURE!" This is what causes idiotic crap like hose-mounted controls. However, it's the same mentality that causes, say, Kirby to push paint sprayers and Handi-Butlers when it's very clear that very few people find any real need for those features. Stuff like this is intended to dazzle on the sales floor, and to heck with how necessary it is once the customer has forked over his cash.

I still confess I don't understand the objection to the weight of a canister hose. I'm never even aware of it. Never.

 

[eurekaprince]

Sandy...truth be told, the electrified silver-coloured hoses on the power nozzle canisters made by Sweden's Electrolux (also found on post-1985 Eurekas) and by Miele seem to be quite lightweight. The electrified hose on the Dyson Motorhead also is pretty light.

The heavy hoses on the Kenmores and Panasonics are the ones that I find a chore to use. They may be very durable, but I found using a Kenmore hose to clean a short stretch of curtains to be really tiring on the arms.

Just to let you know, I am soooo happy with the upright/canister duo I have now. My 16 pound Hoover Tempo Widepath Upright cost me only CAD$120 with tax, and my little Electrolux UltraSilencer Green cost me only CAD$400 with tax. I live in a very small bachelor/studio apartment and the 2 vacs take up very little room in my closet. I plan to get one of those hanging tool storage bags sold with central vacs to get the Electrolux tools off the floor.

Anyhow.....as I said before...it's all about personal preference. I have a friend who thinks I am nuts to dust a bookcase with a vacuum cleaner - "I don't know why you just don't use a rag....." (He does not understand the joy I get from vacuuming! :-D

 

[danemodsandy]

Brian:

Tell your friend the point of vacuuming is to get the dirt out of the house. All rags and dusters do is to move it around. Polishes and sprays can help, but still, there's no joy like taking a full dust bag OUT to the trash, knowing that bit of dirt is gone from your life, forever.

If Kenmore makes a more durable hose than it used to, that's great. I had an '80s TOL Whispertone that had to be tossed due to a disintegrating hose, which was epidemic on those models, which were made by Panasonic. To make matters worse, Sears got into some kind of megillah with Panasonic, who stopped supplying hoses to Sears. You simply could not get a hose for a long while there.

Aerus's replacement vinyl hoses for vintage Electroluxes are far lighter, more flexible and longer than the stiffer, heavier, shorter braided hoses they replace. TriStar's vinyl hoses are really nice, too.

You mentioned something I've never had trouble with, but I know others have - faulty or burnt PN connections at hose ends. That seems to be caused by ignoring an instruction usually found in the vac's manual - you should turn a cleaner OFF before plugging or unplugging the PN. If you try to do it "on the fly," you will cause sparking at the connections, contributing to burnt contacts and failure. Failure to plug the connector in firmly also does this. Also I am amazed at how many appliance plugs I see with half the prongs hanging out of the outlet - a lot of folks are evidently too lazy to plug things in firmly. We won't even get into how many people yank on the cord to unplug stuff. Crazy.

 

[rainbowd4c]

It's just a matter of preferance for everyone. Everyone has a different idea and like when it comes to this. I myself always thought that uprights were old lady vacuums. Growing up (I'm 34 now) if I ever saw a upright it was at some old lady house and I always saw young adults with canisters.

I like canisters. I have always found them easier to use and that I can get more done with them. If I were to get a upright it would be something from the 80's time period like the Hoover Decade 80. You can attach the attachments on at the bottom of the cleaner and just pull it around like a canister, I also like the old Panasonic uprights where the hoseplugged into the back and the Aerus Gardian uprights. But if I'm goingto shop for vacuum I automatically look at the canisters first. Thats alwasy my first choice.

 

[sebo_fan]

It is a matter of preference - there isn't a clear answer that differentiates which one is best - because all cleaning needs are different. Whereas those with carpets in a big house may prefer the compact-ability of a small canister being pulled behind them, I prefer an upright - and not necessarily KIRBY dimensions - to get the greatest amount of dirt out of a carpet - I know what I like and I choose what feels comfortable to me.

How many of you, for example take your upright vac out to the car? I can do that with both my Sebo uprights, because of their top release hoses - the tools are located right to hand, back and at the top. On my Miele/SEBO canisters, you have to return to the main body to get at the main smaller cleaning tools but then you also have the advantage of placing the entire canister in the foot well of a car, thus bringing the machine with you at all times.

How can the weight of a hose affect cleaning ability? Well you have to pull more of a heavy weight behind you and then cope with the bulkier hose because it isn't as flexible as a non-cord-embedded hose. That doesn't affect suction ability, but cleaning ability doesn't just encompass the actual action of cleaning something - it also takes into consideration the amount of effort needed - as well as the amount of strain or in some cases less strain to the user involved.

Whilst some have noted that some PN heads allow flat to the floor, the air driven turbo heads and suction only floor tools do not - you can do this easily if you fit a standard floor head to a canister and then find the floor head juts upwards because of the storage park slot often located at the back of the floor head. MIELE are also bad for this - often requiring the user to go at angles to allow the suction head to remain flat on the floor at all times.

The only exception to the rule where suction only floor heads are concerned, that don't do this seem to be from SEBO's deluxe Kombi floor head. It remains flat to the floor and you can bend at any angle with it, even straight down because the park position has been located at the top of the floor head on the neck.
Let me give you an example since you fail to see the difference.

 

[sebo_fan]

Ignore the example I was going to give - video link doesnt work : ) the age of technology...

 

[danemodsandy]

RS:

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly - are you saying that canisters' suction-only attachments don't lie flat to the floor?

On better American vacuums, the suction-only rug and floor nozzles have a swiveling neck, which allows them to go flat and reach underneath furniture that is only two or three inches above the floor. To operate the swivel neck feature, one turns the wand to one side or the other; the tool then obligingly assumes a position in a straight line with the wand, with its bristles flat to the floor. Many people do not understand this feature; I've shocked a lot of Lux and TriStar owners by showing them how to use it.

 

[sebo_fan]

Flat to the floor suction tools...

You heard me right. The European brands - Miele, Bosch, Hoover, Electrolux - all have storage park hooks on the back of the swivel. So when you lower the handle like an upright vacuum and expect the floor head to remain flat to the floor - it won't - unless there is a 360 degree swivel and a pivotal movement that allows the floor head to go flat at the same angle as the handle and pipes.

The Sebo Deluxe Kombi floor tool and their Deluxe Parquet tool can do this because of the double joint mechanism - try with the Miele etc and the floor head will jut up because of the park position snagging on the carpet - the way around that is to swing the handle and tubes to the left or right which allows the suction floor head to remain flat to the carpet.

 

[eurekaprince]

I still say it is far safer and easier and more productive to clean carpets far under a bed with a suction only canister using a regular carpet nozzle or upholstery nozzle. And yes, for many of the European (mostly German-made) carpet nozzles, you have to turn the wand and hose handle to the left or right to get the nozzle to stay flat on the carpet. Most canister's carpet nozzles allow you to do that.

I think most motorized power nozzles available with canisters have difficulty staying flat with the carpet as soon as the wand gets close to the ground. Perhaps the early Eureka Roto-Matic power-nozzles allowed you to swivel the wand to one side to get it really flat with the ground. But some set-ups don't allow you to do that movement. For instance, if you use Kenmore's Powermates with a telescopic wand, you can't rotate the handle to make it lie flat to the ground.

I also don't think it's wise to use a canister's power nozzle too far under a bed anyhow - even with a headlight, there is a large possibility that the revolving brush will get jammed on an unseen plastic bag or lost sock or child's toy or magazine or other large item.

Again - just my opinion: far easier to clean carpets under a bed with a suction only carpet nozzle or right-angled upholstery nozzle if you don't want to move the bed.