Couple of points from a new member. re. Sebo and Panasonic.

[DevonStan]

Hello. I won't drag this out beyond saying I spotted the site when researching what new upright vacuum to buy. Following advice here and by looking around I decided to buy a Sebo X4 Extra (Blue/Orange). Ordered from Amazon - £214 for the appliance plus a Sebo Service Box and a further 20 Sebo paper bags from an independant seller. Good service from both and a decent price ( plus I had an Amazon £10 off voucher valid for one day).

The X4 seems excellent at this early stage. Very pleased with it. Great performance and easy to assemble and a pleasure to use (if using a vacuum cleaner can be a pleasure). At some point I'll allow the wife to use it...but not just yet

I hadn't researched the topic of the bags enough though. The Service Box has white synthetic bags in it, but, without thinking, I ordered the additional bags in the paper version. Following calls to Sebo and the independant seller I do believe them to be genuine but would have got the synthetics had I given it more thought. I won't re-use the paper bags but will think about re-using the synthetic ones...maybe just one re-use?? I'll need to buy a clip/slide thingy for this. Sebo Customer Service implied that they hadn't supplied any paper bags for the last two years and said I really ought to have received white ones - but the independent sellers I spoke to (Sussex Spares and First4Spares/Qualtex) said they both order paper bags direct from Sebo so their advice regarding the last two years must be poor advice.

A bit confusing, but I'll just use the paper ones and get whites in future.

The new Sebo replaces a Panasonic MC-E4011 bagless vacuum and will be used downstairs. However I have another identical Panasonice used upstairs. I have an enquiry regarding the Panasonic and will post it in a separate thread if I may.

Thanks for the advice. Appreciated.

 

[sebo_fan]

Welcome!!

Well let me the first UK member to welcome another NEW UK member to this fabulous forum.

I like almost all German vacs hence the name but I have also owned a few Panasonic vacs (European ones of course since U.S get different ones to what we get).

Firstly the paper dust bags are OLD STOCK. I suspect this is what First4Spares and others sell on without thinking as they would have the boxes in the warehouse and just grab the box without checking. I have bought the bags before and was issued a refund when I sent the paper dust bags back. Other boxes I have kept as I like using the paper ones as well as synthetic.

After all as the old SEBO marketing saying goes, "once you vacuum up the dirt you never really see it again..."

The old paper bag can last individually from a period of 3 to 4 months dependent on the dirt in the home (I find anyway) and a box of the bags lasts me on average a year and a half to 2 years dependent on each dust bag used.

The newer synthetic ones are not supposed to be re-used but they are floppy enough to be shaken free of dirt, turned inside out, gently brushed clean and re-used once more. I have done this myself but I wouldn't ADVISE doing it a third time as the microfilter can only stand up to so much in terms of the electrostatic weave of the disposable bag and they're not called disposable for nothing!

Generally SEBO ownership isn't expensive on the dust bags and filters. They can last a long time in the X series as well as a lot of their other models.

Lastly, the last Panasonic upright I owned had Panasonic's own disposable filter bag installed but they're too expensive and don't seal up properly.

I have also owned three of those Panasonic MC-E4011's in various guises, so just ask away!

 

[sebo4me]

Congratulations Stan. The Sebo X4 is the best bagged upright available in Europe in my opinion.
You will enjoy many years of trouble free use

 

[DevonStan]

Thanks for both helpful replies. Appreciated.

Having now got the paper ones I'll keep them (unless it's thought inadvisable) especially as I did actually order paper bags (albeit inadvisedly perhaps) and it wasn't an error by the supplier.

The Panasonic bagless uprights are, as mentioned, MC-E4011. I have two in working condition and a I just realised there's a brand new one in its box in the loft. They must have been really cheap at the time (they were from Makro).

We will use a Panasonic upstairs (especially given that there are three of them and all work OK) and use the Sebo downstairs, where it'll get more use. In addition I have a Panasonic bagless cylinder MC-E8033. They all use the exhaust filter AMC 95KXL (AMC8504W5000). An oblong filter with a little tab on one edge approx 18mmx72mmx20mm. I've never replaced any of them and am guessing it would be a good idea. But they are now difficult to source. Ebay and Amazon show a couple (probably copy, not original) ... some are £20 or £30 each! But there are one or two for around £6 or £7.

If sourcing replacements is going to be difficult I was wondering if it's possible to do a bit of DIY and replace the filter material whilst keeping the original filter body. I'm happy to receive advice on anyone's experience.

One last point relates to the foam/rubber sealing gasket on the lid of the dust container. It's the one that seals whee the semi-round clear plastic top of the bin meets the removable top. THe gasket has compressed where it touches the container and I suspect dust was leaking out a tiny bit and was allowing a vey fine coat of dust to settle on the outside of the container.

I've bought a sheet of 2mm foam-rubber (self adhesive) from an Ebay seller and removed (scraped off) the complete old sheet of gasket and cut out the required shape to form a new one. It seems OK at the moment.

The "Dust compartment filters" A and B (AMC8S86AAOOO) are unavailable but I have several of the thick foam filters and they wash out OK and the other component...the plastic and fibre part...are also OK and also wash out OK.

The brush bar also seems hard to find and ideally I would replace them as I always found that when I changed my Electrolux upright beater/brush rollers the machine worked a bit better but they're probably still servicable.

OK. I've rambled on enough. Any thoughts will be gratefully received. I'll check in to see any replies as often as possible. Apologies in advance if I delay at any time though.

Thanks.

 

[sebo_fan]

The brush bar for the MCE 4000 series is the SAME as the bagged uprights such as MCE 3001 and various series uprights (the white models or the black bagged models) that additionally use the two drive belts as they do on your series uprights.

Check Amazon UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-MCE3001-MCE4103-Vacuum-SP105-T/dp/B00E9GAAII

I owned the MCE 4003 model and the later 1900 watt MCE 4111.

The exhaust filter isn't washable but there's no harm in putting a simple microfilter in at the door, if you keep the cartridge holder that used to hold the HEPA filter in at the back. It is after all only the exhaust outlet.

If memory serves me correctly I was never a fan of those twin bin uprights. They were novel to a point but even with a clean filter on board, the twin filter at the top had a tendency to over clog, so its not surprising that you have found a layer of dust at the top inside. Panasonic rectified this somewhat with another filter on the MCE 4111 but even at that I found it did very little to seal the dirt in past the twin "towers."

The MCE 4111 cost £99 in 2007 and it didn't last very long with me. They were relatively cheap to buy, very light to push but the short hose was also annoying and the inability to clean flat to the floor.

I wrote a review many years ago about the above upright, so have a read if you like, when you have the time. (Click the link)

If I ever saw a Twin bin Panasonic bagless upright again I dont think I would bother. After owning two to three of these vacs, the filter systems aren't terribly good. Sorry.

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/vacuum-cleaner/panasonic-mce4111/

 

[DevonStan]

That was helpful, s_f. The info re. the beater bar being the same as 3xxx and the link will be invaluable.

Being a bit of a thicko I can't quite picture the detail of your proposal for the exhaust filter. I had visions of cutting out the existing filter material from the plastic surround and replacing it with a fresh piece of filter material (presumably what you're referring to as microfilter). But I hadn't given much thought to whether the force of the exhaust would deform it and try to force it through the slats of the plastic cover (the door?).

After many years of bagless twin bin ownership I've got out of the habit of thinking about bags in a vacuum. But I'll have to own up to re-using the generic copy-cat paper bags in the Electrolux 502's from ages ago. I believe they came with a plastic slider/grip thing to enable re-use? But also seem to remember folding the end and stapling it closed for some reason. I guess that's not a good idea with the new Sebo!

Thanks again for your time and trouble.

 

[sebo_fan]

Im trying to remember the exhaust filter - it was a rectangular piece of plastic with thick ridges on the inside to keep the HEPA filter intact (otherwise it would have rattled against the door when in use as the Pan uprights had blowy exhausts).

However I remember the MCE 4003 came with a black foam carbon style filter with a white piece of microfilter over it. Microfilter is basically a white synthetic filter made up of several compacted layers to form electrostatic principles that trap dirt.

The white microfilter could be fashioned from cut to fit microfilters either for cooker hoods or universal vacuum cleaner filter sheets. Even a cut to fit Super Air Clean filter from Miele could be used. Because the ridges are so deep within the exhaust door, it would only force the sheet against the ridges, not come through them.

I have only owned an Electrolux Z517 but I do know what you are referring to and it too had a bag clip for the dust bag which was all the rage at the time to make bags reusable. Hoover also had those on their Turbopower vacuums in the UK and Europe, but they were phased out for sealed bags to stop any possibility of escaping dirt in their Turbopower 2 & 3 series. You can still use those bags in the Hoover models but put simply, the ONLY resealable bags you can buy these days are the shake out SMS material dust bags which are often capped on capacity and pretty messy. SEBO have never made one for the X series though they did make one for their commercial vacuums under the BS36/46 series.

The clean air system on a SEBO X is substantially different to that of the Electrolux Z500 series in my view. Whilst I found the Z500 I had to be fairly quiet and a pleasure to use, the bags seldom filled up because the Z517 had a small suction motor compared to the later twin motor versions.

The bags also clogged badly at the top with dirt failing to fall properly to the bottom - the SEBO bags fill the dust from the top but they can be absolutely RAMMED WITH DIRT and still have suction left over - this is more apparent with the synthetic bags compared to the paper bags, but both can still be rammed with dirt lol

There is another thread on here created by some of the U.S members on this forum with regards to paper or synthetic bags and where some members report that HEPA bags cut suction or put strain on the motor. This is true to an extent but not with all brands. (click link if you're interested).

Personally if you're happy with Panasonic I'd buy the bagged white model - but you better be quick because as of last year, Panasonic have more or less stopped vacuums on their books. Their latest "Eco" white models have a single drive belt now.

http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?30859_31~1

 

[turbo500]

Hi Stan,

Just a quick hello and welcome to the group!

Chris

 

[DevonStan]

Firstly, thanks, Chris, for the kind word. Appreciated.

Next..further thanks, s_f, for that amazing insight. I can associate with all that you say (which, for me, is quite something).

We are now both singing from the same hymn sheet regarding the exhaust filter and I'll be able to comply with your suggestions. There are a good number of odd filters and pieces of filter material in the garage which can be put to use.

I've absorbed all you've said and it's noted with interest..... I now know a bit more about Sebo bags and need not scratch my head in future. On reflection we've had several models of the the Electrolux 500 series and kept them going with no more than routine care and odd bits replaced over time. I've now spotted references to them on this site and it brings it all back . Prior to that (in the 1970's I would think, there were a couple of 'Hoover's, which, I seem to remember, were not well made and didn't last particularly well.

Our neighbour used to have her 502 serviced regularly - every year an engineer would arrive at her house (next door) and attend to it - mind you she used it several times every day and if a visitor called you could hear the cleaner come on through the walls of the (terraced) house as she swept up after them. It raised a smile more than once.

In all honesty I'd only very recently spotted that Panasonic didn't sell very many (if any) vacuum cleaners now and went on to look at alternatives such as Miele instead and, in turn, was 'directed' towards Sebo.....a name I'd heard spoken well of but had no experience of. Am now very happy with the purchase.

I did check the topic in your link but will re-visit it - thanks for including it above.

I was tempted to buy a bag clip as they seem readily available, but having read above, I don't think it would be a good idea to get into the habit of repeated re-use so will abandon that idea.

OK, enough! We're pretty much much sorted. I'll order a new brush roller for the upright Panasonic and that, plus a "reconditioned" exhaust filter will do the job for the foreseeable. The Sebo has been registered at Sebo UK and I now know much better what to do to keep it in good order. And I've been taken back to the 1970's into the bargain....so thanks very much for all of that

 

[sebo_fan]

Its been great to help another UK member but do visit the site here as there is plenty on here. I suggest that you look at Google and add any brand name, model number and then vacuumland as a secondary word. You'll find a ton of archives on here including Volta 500s which are another company also owned by Electrolux who also sold those uprights under the name. Plenty of info can be found through Google+vacuumland if you search.

Do hope to hear from you again. Good vacuuming with your Sebo!

http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?17364

 

[DevonStan]

Thanks again, sebo_fan.

I will, happily and gratefully, refer back here and have created a bookmark. Have just referred to your notes and am taken aback by the depth and breadth of your history with these things. (Independent article seen too).

I saw reference to Goblin too. My parents owned one when I was very young, in the 1950's. A metal cylinder. There's one very similar on Ebay for £75, a 1950's model, that takes me back.

A more recent recollection goes back to the eighties when I was handed a "prize draw ticket" in the street. Lo and behold it transpired I was a lucky winner and was invited to accept the prize at my home address. Enter the Kirby salesman. Can't remember whether it was £500 or £700 but the demonstration was convincing - and protracted....very protracted. Can't remember what time of the evening he left the house but he was there for a LONG time. No sale was achieved and I didn't get the "prize" either. but the name 'Kirby' has remained ever since. An ex work mate DID buy one...but he was of the disposition whereby you could sell him virtually anything...and lots of people did. He had it serviced annually and swore by it. Remarkably heavy as I recall and shiny and made of lots of metal, as I recall. I even seem to think he said it could be used as a DRILL! Could that be right? I wonder if he still has it?

Right you are. I'll stop there.

Thanks again.

 

[sebo_fan]

Kirby uprights are great but Im just not that taken with them, or rather my home isn't - I can barely get the SEBO 360 to move around my home, but love it so because it is so quiet to use. Id say it has a similar foot print to a Kirby upright.

When I was a student I did a stint of being a cleaner in a school. We used commercial Hoover uprights and old Kirby uprights which were brilliant for open spaces.