Are We Ever Going To Get Any Decent Bagged Upright Vacuum Cleaners In The UK?

[sebo_fan]

Alex - the "Hoover Junior" stick vac was released a few years ago, nothing more than the European "Athyss" stick vac that Hoover UK thought would be a good idea to rename "Junior," after the famous soft bagged upright - nothing at all to do with the fact that Hoover were just desperate to make sales of course. Two models were launched, a burgundy deep red with suction only floor head and a black model with a turbo brush. Im sure there are plenty of archive threads regarding that stick vacuum.

As for Kirby, yes they are traditional and original but in the UK they are well over priced which is often out of reach for many buyers.

As for capping power on vacuum cleaner - well, I don't see the point in the government passing legislation to cap power levels when you consider that rapid boil kettles use 3000 watts at a time or the electric hobs that you get in fitted kitchens with 3000 watts, there's really no point in reducing vacuum cleaner's wattage - there are already vacuums on the market that have 1000 watts or less, it's just that consumers have yet to realise who they are and what type they offer.

 

[alexhoovers94]

sebofan


I thought you were refuring to the Oreck and hometeck being better than the old soft bag Hoover Juniors

 

[starlightsam]

Comparing the wattage of a vacuum cleaner to that of an electric kettle is to compare apples to eggs. The vacuum cleaner is going to consume electricity for as long as it takes to complete the job in hand. The wattage of the motor is not the driving force behind how long it takes for that job to be completed. The high-wattage rapid-boil kettle is a different matter altogether. Though it consumes vast amounts of electricity when in operation, the period in which it is switched on for is short, as this type of element allows water to be heated to boiling point very quickly. Once at temperature, the heating element switches off. A lower wattage element may consume less electricity, but the whole activity takes a longer period of time to complete, so overall uses more electricity to do the job.

 

[sebo_fan]

Yes I did initially,...

But I think you confused yourself - my post initially referred to the Hoover Junior stick vac which you hoped wasn't the actual older dirty fan Hoover Junior. But then I referred to that model in a response post from Gary (hoover119dude) who mentioned the good old days when the outer bag used to inflate - and I responded with the Oreck uprights as they still do that. I also referred that Oreck and Hometek have one up on the Junior dirty fan vacs - high filter bags, longer power cord, able to clean hard floors because of the lack of beater bars - but more importantly Alex, the more I think about it, the Oreck is still on sale - Hometek sales are sporadic, often those bagged uprights come and go - but you can't say the Hoover Junior is on sale anymore - unless you count the refurbs and the ones that collectors have beautifully restored over the years.

Now I'm a stalwart dirty fan Hoover Junior fan and I dislike the Oreck XL BECAUSE OF MY EXPERIENCE with the older model with the bag that sticks onto the dust channel. However, that hasn't stopped me from trying newer models that have the push in bag holder and they're far better in so far as not requiring to be cleaned out because of the bag holder alone.

Oreck's aren't perfect - but in this "modern" day and age where most homes now have a mix of hard floors and carpets, the Oreck concept works well if all you need is a quick clean to sprint around and do floor clean up. Sadly in my experience, the old Hoover Juniors with the metal beater bars just can't be used on hard floors - unless of course you want damage intentionally!

VR - the only report I've seen regarding legislation is the report that has been mentioned a lot on here in other archive posts - see link. It was Chris who initially brought up the thread (http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?18105) newspaper link below.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-power-of-vacuum-cleaners-to-save-energy.html

 

[sebo_fan]

They Are Ways of being eco-friendlier than low power vacuums

Starlightsam - a very good point and I see where you're coming from. However, therein lies the possible factor that a higher powered vacuum will lift far more dust in a shorter time than a low powered vacuum OR dependent on the type used at the time with the same consideration for the type of floor head etc you intend to use.

But what happens if you use a kettle 5 to 10 times a day to make endless cups of tea or coffee - particularly if you like your water to be hot to drink? Counter in the amount of times you use a small appliance like a high energy kettle a day and a high power vacuum cleaner can be used in the same amount of time it takes to boil as many mugs of tea or 1 litre of water. This is where I'm afraid, the question of so-called "Eco" kettles are a full of false promises - if the rating plate reads 3000 watts, it isn't eco friendly, no matter how much you fill the water level up to, even if smaller amounts need less power to boil, they're still using that 3000 watts the moment it is switched on - what buyers don't realise is that they can buy the cheaper 2200 watt kettle but at the expense of less convenient features (a bit like bagged uprights on the market today where features that were once present have now been taken out) such as concealed elements or rotational bases.

My theories surround the amount of energy that is wasted by powering up appliances in the first instance - from dishwashers to tumble dryers, to washing machines and the appliances that are constantly left on like the fridge freezer. Eco branded appliances are not eco-friendly in my experience (see previous thread with my experience of my Bosch dishwasher as a classic example - the Eco setting takes a far longer wash time than the three other programs).

My daily appliances such as the microwave oven is switched off at the wall. I don't take delight in programming the digital clock knowing that the oven is effectively on standby mode, still plugged in and still supplying that small quota of energy before it is actually used.

To some of the younger members on here where mummy or daddy pay the bills in your home, then you don't have to worry your head about energy costs.

However my parents are both deceased and I pay all my own bills being a single adult; i often find myself vacuuming in the early hours as that's when my power goes on half rate! During the day if I need to do a quick clean, the cordless Gtech gets taken out.

The cost of central heating is so high that my heating only goes on three days a week and my parents house of which I inherited has an old boiler system with radiators that can't be switched off individually. Thus I have to use portable convector "pipe" radiators (they're a new range from Dimplex called Eco radiators) just to heat the room I'm in rather than heat up the whole house and waste the energy in rooms I'm not using. Eventually once I've saved up a bit, I'll be installing much better boiler system, but by then I also intend to move out of Scotland once and for all, too.

But then you know what its like if you're a collector. Sometimes for that bit of luxury you can't help but use a vacuum cleaner just for the fun and sheer enjoyment of it..during the day.

Even if brands begin to launch vacuums with lower motors, they still need to address sealed suction and airflow. Some brands are worse than others for this, even for those who produce bagged vacuums.

Interestingly, Alex - can you determine what you mean "decent" from your first post, please? It is nigh difficult to know what you mean, otherwise.

 

[tolivac]

When I used to live in an "efficiency"-"Studio" apartment I had a Kirby and my Moms old Sunbeam "suitcase" vacuum.both did alright-I started collecting vacuums-had a row of them in that home.Got my first NSS Pig at that time,too.The Kirby,and the Pig both had dump bags at the time-would take them to the trash room to empty them.The place was a high rise building-one time while dumping the Pig bag someone using the trash room below yelled inot the chute-"Stop dumping that bag until I am done-"waited out his request.He was in a cloud of dust!Imagine he looked like "pigpen" on Peanuts when he left the trash room!and of course-found discarded vacuums,TVs,and such in the trash rooms.

 

[nycwriter]

You know ...

... Kirbys (and Royals, for that matter) aren't any more "bulky" than those plastic screaming nightmares sold at the big box stores.

And in terms of your electric bill ... if your choice of vacuum really makes that much of a difference on the monthly bill, you have bigger financial problems than which vacuum to buy.

Seriously. Unless your vacuum is running constantly 24/7 like your refrigerator or air conditioner, the dollar difference is negligible.

 

[sebo_fan]

That is a good point NYC -which in turn is why there is no need to have a stipulation or silly law concerning high power vacuums - at least as buyers we have a choice as to what to use and not cut down by the energy "wastage" a vacuum cleaner with a high power motor runs away with. Or for the fact that as buyers we can still buy bagless as well as bagged vacuums.

The argument or perhaps reasons behind it is flawed when taking other considerations and high energy appliances into the equation.

 

[nycwriter]

And ...

... I don't know how things are in the socialist U.K., but here in the U.S., as long as I pay my electric bill, I'm entitled to use AS MUCH ELECTRICITY AS I DAMN WELL PLEASE.

Yes, that includes burning incandescent light bulbs (I absolutely refuse to use CFLs, which actually cause damage to our DNA, as well as a host of other health problems).

And yes, I use a calculator that PLUGS INTO THE WALL. Deal.

 

[petek]

As much as I love my Kirby's they are at times a bit unwieldly I think and again it depends on the style and layout of your house. In our Calgary house which was very open and spacious bi- level and almost fully carpeted they were fantastic excepting for the carpeted stairways. Our house here is a largish 4 level side split and they're a bit of a chore having to lug up and down 4 short stairways. A few years back I took my G3 to moms ranch style house. She was about 83 at the time but still very mobile. She had lots of carpeting and very thick plush stuff in her livingroom. She was quite impressed with the G3 until she had to unplug it and then couldn't move the thing into the cupboard LOL. I've had most of the carpeting removed here except for the stairway up to the bedrooms, the hallway up there and one of the bedrooms still has carpeting. I keep my Heritage Legend II up there for ease of use. It's imo the best Kirby.

Here's my Ben vacuuming the Calagary livingroom with the Legend II

 

[uksausage]

the whole kirby debate thing

at the moment as my 6 cats and the dog are shedding almost endlessly im using my G5/G6 its a bit of both machines (my friend has the other one that is a G6/G5 her house is quite small and cluttered by the way)
my place is not that big but i manage with the kirby i do have a few areas where its not that easy to use nut then i just put the hose on, i dont find that annoying either as its something i do every day for my edges, my bathroom floor also dusting my lounge and kitchen including the cooker and the rest of the appliances (floating cat hair can be an issue)
i find the cylinders are much more cumbersome in my place i hardly use the wertheim although the pn is exellent the machine is hard to lug about, the same goes for my pn miele and numatic with pn
ho hum thats my bit out the way sorry if it offends anyone
oh a last note vacuums really do not need these cheap loud badly built overheating shit motors

 

[sebo_fan]

I really wish people would learn that the reason a motor overheats is possibly because the airflow is being restricted or if the filters require to be cleaned. A lot of of that ignorance isn't helped by brands who continually to offer high power motors with very little heat insulation.

You've hit the nail on the head with canisters with PN's are concerned - I too find them bulky to use and much prefer the faster speed that lighter suction only heads employ (or air driven turbo brushes If I have to use them.)

Alex - still waiting to know what you term as "decent" in an upright.

 

[alexhoovers94]

What I consider a decent vacuum...

A decent vacuum in my opinion is any vacuum cleaner that is clean air with a good brushroll - the NEW Dysons, Sebo's, 80's/90's Elctroluxes Hoover Turbopower 2's.
A very good vacuum would be something on the lines of an older Hoover - Turbopowers, Turbomasters, Juniors, Seniors, Kirbys infact most dirty air cleaners are very good carpet cleaners.

 

[sebo_fan]

<span style="font-size: 14px;">Mmm, some obvious choices there - I guess its different for everyone. A decent upright vacuum for me comes down to: </span>


 


<ol>
<li>Performance on carpets and if required, hard floors.</li>
<li>Easy to handle/steer and a comfortable handle.</li>
<li>Ease of removing on board hose and tools if they are built in.</li>
<li>Quality of the product</li>
<li>Economical costs AND running costs.</li>
<li>Easy to replace bags & filters that don't get your hands dirty either with the process of removal or installation.</li>
<li>Easy to inspect parts for maintenance.</li>
</ol>
It is difficult to judge older uprights such as the ones you've suggested from the 80s/90s as they are in short supply and only way of purchase is either from a collector or someone who just happens to be selling an old one on auction sites - but at the detriment of an abused life etc. 


 


 


 

 

[alexhoovers94]

Indeed

I agree.

 

[sebo_fan]

So, moving on from that, let me give you an obvious example of what <span style="text-decoration: underline;">I </span>consider to be closest to the more modern upright bagged vacuums we currently have, or the machines I once had: Hoover Turbopower 2 U2464 or Hoover Turbopower 3 U2812.


 


<ol>
<li>Performance on carpets = great but agitator brush bar warnings on hard floors despite hard floor setting and whatever setting you select per carpet height.</li>
<li>Easy to handle = with slow progress yes but dependent on height (mes 6ft) stooping is required & handle is short; main weight of the Hoover models determines the speed required to push and pull. I had some difficulty in getting the vacuums to lay flat to clean though and put this down to the central hinge rather than the floor head itself - which seldom deep cleaned carpet when tried as the brush bar would hover over the carpet than properly touch the surface.</li>
<li>Ease of removing tools etc = easy and the choices given with Hoover were slightly better user orientated.</li>
<li>Quality of the product = The old TP2 and 3 are sturdy machines,  however even in later life the central hinge can lose its natural position and start to bend downwards; sometimes the wheel chassis can break or start to show signs of replacement. Plastic chassis carriage can start to break due to abusive life or made to clean hard, unlevel floors with obstructions such as exposed nails that can pierce the light plastic. Black rubber power cord is easy to damage/top layer condition susceptible to staining or nicks caused by being run over by the upright by accident etc.</li>
<li>Economical costs and running costs - fair to average back in the day (1998 etc) but cheaper now and more "economical" to run due to lower motor power. Also spares are relatively cheaper for bags, belts, filters etc.</li>
<li>Easy to replace bags & filters = Yes.</li>
<li>Easy to inspect parts for maintenance = relatively, yes.</li>
</ol>
All things considered with the higher grade spec of the autosense etc, my main gripe with the TP2/3 series was largely its weight. I found as I got older and started to grow that when I bottomed out at 6ft, the natural position to use the uprights made me stoop more when pushing and pulling them across carpets and I was never that quick with those uprights when it came to cleaning despite the high power. The handle also "started" to appear smaller as my hands became a bit bigger and thus began to get uncomfortable to grip. 


 


I think Hoover had the best time at the time when the TP2 and 3's were on sale. However, if they appeared on the market now with a somewhat lighter weight, easier to push design and longer, more comfortable handle, I'd probably be interested, again. The Purepower in my experience is not the best replacement. 


 


 


 

 

[uksausage]

purepower

im inclined to agree with that statement the pure power is not a good replacement for turbopower 2 & 3 the pure power is like a toy vacuum, i had one when they first arrived on the market, it was top of the range in blue with s class filtration a turbo nozzle variable power i think it was either 12 0r 1400 watts cant quite remember, i also bought the optional cloth bag.
back then it was very rare to get a turbo tool supplied with a vacuum cleaner, and it was a very very good turbo tool not like the ones available today, the pure power was also a lot more sturdy mine was solid and the hose was different to what they are now with a proper bent end handle unlike now the hose handle is just straight, the machines body is thinner plastic now and the tools are not very good quality anymore,and the brush roll is not the activator anymore,what were they thinking. the only problem with the original purepowers was the motors, the same as the vortex they didnt last very long.
if you want just a cheap basic upright with tools attached the purepower is not a bad option but as sebo has said they are not good for tall people or for people with dexterity problems. i think performance is average nowadays unlike the originals.
i do feel its time to bring back some more bagged cleaners a lot of people i know are saying they are over it with bagless as they are messy and dusty usually quite heavy and too overpriced, ive managed to sell 6 of my bagged cleaners in the last 5 weeks to people who used to swear by bagless.
ive always thought the sebo uprights are very good bagged machines and for the price you get outstanding german engineering, if you want to spend more buy a vorwerk i like them as well.
there really should be a campaign to bring back some bagged vacuum cleaners

 

[sebo_fan]

I have never tried Vorwerk but I would like to. The price of the new ones put me off and from what I've read on here as well as reviews, a lot of owners have since traded up to the Sebo Felix, which is understandable as both machines swivel. Plus in the UK, Vorwerk bags can be difficult to source. Its worlds away from the Panasonic upright I bought recently but the two share the same problem of finding dust bags, even if the Panasonic is beginning to get better for bag availability.


 


That is the problem with a lot of brands - unless they have a large network of spares in place already, it is difficult to find dust bags unless you go for the copy ones and half the time they're never as good as the originals. Some copy bags are good though. I used to use copy bags for my Moulinex Powerstyle cylinder vac in the mid 1990s. This is where the Purepower fights back - plus I had an early one in the 1990s, a Lifetime model that came with a permanent re-useable material dust bag that could be washed, dried after use and refitted.


 


I also had the Argos bagged upright for a time and it only used exclusive bags from Argos. The upright still sells and though its made of flimsier plastic than the Purepower, its a decent effort for the cost price, not bad suction and wonderfully light to push across carpets. Again though the downside is that you have to buy a lot of bags to make the purchase worthwhile as opposed to perhaps in a couple of months when you may need more bags and then find that Argos have sold out etc. 


 


At least with Hoover's dust bags (Purepower etc) you can use the existing bags that Hoover sell. They'd have no worries in that respect producing what they already have - but at the same time they could develop a much better bagged upright to replace the Purepower. 

 

[andy-lux]

@turbo500.
Even my house is relativly small for a Kirby. But i do find that a Sebo 360 does a pretty good job of even the shortest pile of carpets

 

[sebo_fan]

All this talk again of the Hoover Junior et al got me hankering again for an Oreck or something alternative. Today I was offered to buy the Vax VCU-02 for £39-99. Will let you know what I decide!