Are Bag Check Indicators To Be Trusted?

[bagintheback]

Normally I forget about bag check lights when I get a vacuum that has one, but I'm not sure about the one on my Riccar Brilliance. On any other vacuum, the light will normally come on if I place my hand over the hose, blocking off all the airflow. But on the Riccar, this does not happen.

So should I leave the bag in until the vacuum tells me to change it, or should I decide myself? Do any of you know of a vacuum that has an efficient bag check light that really does work?

 

[kirby]

I would say no. I cheak my vacuum bags by fealing the dirt in the bag. plus I throw away the bag before it gets half way to the full line on the bag. Hope this helps.
david

 

[jmurray01]

I've never had a Vacuum Cleaner that has had a Bag Full indicator that actually tells you to change the bag when it should be changed.

All the ones I've used do just what the name suggests - Indicate when the bag is FULL. I mean that literally.

I check my bags regularly and replace them when they get to 2/3 full.

Just to prove my point, I did once let the 1994 HOOVER Turbopower go on and on with the same bag deliberately just to see when the light would illuminate, and by the time it did, the bag was so full there was literally NO suction getting to the hose.

Same with my 2008 JMB SC1056 which has a piston indicator.

I can't remember who said it but somebody said on here that the reason manufacturers design the indicators to activate when the bag is packed full is because to the general consumer a bag doesn't need changed until it is as filled as it can be, and if the indicator suggested otherwise, they would think the manufacturer was trying to get more money from them by getting them to replace the bags more often.

Of course another incentive is that repeatedly running a Vacuum Cleaner until the bag is so full the suction is cut will wear the motor over time and eventually prove fatal, resulting in another sale for the manufacturer.

Luckily us Vacuum Cleaner collectors know to use our own discretion and change the bag before a wrongly programmed light/piston tells us to! At least I HOPE we all know that - I certainly do. Perhaps I'm too over-kill, but I'd rather be over-kill than actually kill my motor!

Sorry about the rather long winded response, but you did ask for it when you posted something I have a view about, ha ha!

 

[fan-of-fans]

I have only had two machines with bag check/performance indicators - my Kenmore Whispertone canister and the Kenmore/Sanyo Let's Clean canister. The Whispertone canister never seems to show red on its mechanical indicator unless I put my hand over the hose. I change the bag when the suction drops noticably. The Let's Clean has a scale type indicator that seems to go toward red often as I need to wash the filter most likely.

 

[kirbylux77]

Aerus-Electrolux Canisters....

Are the only vacuums I find with reliable bag check lights or indicators. Others I have found will warn you only when there is so little suction, there is hardly any cleaning going on, & putting the motor under more stress than it should.

What I like about the bag check on the Aerus-Electrolux vacuums is that they are "Automatic Control" & can be custom suited to any home's cleaning needs. For my situation, where I pick up lots of sand & fine dust, it is ideal, because a normal bag check light would warn after the vacuum has lost all of it's power; this way, I keep it running at peak efficiency at all times.

Rob

 

[raycarter]

While I am with the rest of you, checking the bag for myself regularly and replacing it when it is no more than two-thirds full, the full bag indicator does have one virtue-it can warn the user in a timely manner when a sudden blockage forms in the hose, wands or nozzle, which.can also.curtail airflow and lead to overheating. So, while.they generally aren't trustworthy when it comes to timely bag changes, they are not totally devoid of merit.

 

[sebo_fan]

I seldom wholly trust piston valve bag fill indicators - the only exception is with the new synthetic dust bags in the Sebo Felix. The LED control on the K and X models are however far more reliable - but as jmurray says, physically just checking the bag gives benefit of the doubt.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Piston bag-check indicators are useless; they either clog/jam or never seem tailored to the type or amount of dirt being picked up.

Electronic types seem to be better, but there is much variation. Hoover's clean fan upright versions never seemed to indicate properly even with a full bag. I think the "Turbopower 1" might have worked a little better, but I can't remember now.

Hoover's "Sensotronic System 2" and "Alpina Tria-3" had electronic. I think the Alpina had an extra mini-bag-check/"no suction" on the remote handle panel.

The Electrolux 551 upright seemed to detect the fine powdery dust that coats the walls of the bag, reducing suction power, so it was pretty accurate.

 

[jmurray01]

While I was reading the latest posts on this thread I remembered that my 1982 Electrolux 502S has a whistle indicator, which actually is accurate, but only if you set it to the correct number so that it whistles when the bag is at the level you want it to get to before changing.

I however forgot to check what number it whistled at when I last changed the bag so I can't use it this time, but when the bag reaches 2/3 full again I'll see when it whistles by turning it on with the full bag and rotating the knob, and keep it at that for future reference.

One piston indicator that is very unreliable is the one in my 2000 Electrolux Tango, which displays red whenever the cleaner is running even with an empty bag and clean filters with no blockages.

God knows why it does that but there you go.

 

[jmurray01]

As much as I see your point Ray, it is pretty obvious when a Vacuum Cleaner has a blockage as the tone increases so much you'd have to be deaf not to hear it.

I've noticed that quite a few Vacuum Cleaners on sale these days don't have Bag Full indicators, probably because of the reasons we're discussing now!

 

[luxlover]

I agree they cant be trusted, My fully gray electrolux ambassador III is suppose to turn off or not turn on when the bag is full, but like others ive done a test i let it go untill it wouldnt turn on and for that to happen the bag is so full it about to come out the hose connect inlet...

 

[gottahaveahoove]

I know they're vintage, but

the old Dial-A-matics worked. The Convertible bags have that dotted line with a note. Also. if they had the springs instead of the "diving board" the vinyl bag tended to "bounce" when full. We all know to check our bags frequently.
To jump back to Contemporary, I've seen HOOVER Elites, etc, thrown to the curb because the bags were packed! Several times, after a good cleaning and a new bag, they were good to go.Can you imagine what these people's kids' diapers were like?

 

[raycarter]

Jeff Foxworthy said it best;

"If you think the six to ten pounds rating.on the side of the diaper.box indicates how much the diaper will hold, you might be a redneck."

 

[jmurray01]

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is a phrase that comes to mind!

I don't understand people who throw Vacuum Cleaners out because the bag is full.

When I picked up my 1994 HOOVER Turbopower from the dump it worked great but the only problem was the "Twice Use" bag had been used twice and needed replaced, but instead of buying another bag, they threw a good condition perfectly working (the belt wasn't even slipping!) Vacuum Cleaner away and are probably sitting now with a crappy bagless cleaner that is clogging up all the time wondering why they ever got rid of their reliable Turbopower.

 

[sebo_fan]

Well JM one reason alone to why people chuck out vacuums with a full bag isn't because it has a full bag - not in the thrift finds I've found over the years - it's because the machine is so fully clogged up through the dust channels and system that the previous owner couldn't be ars*d to clean the machine out. This is a common problem I found with a lot of Turbopower uprights, more notably the channel from the roller brush to the bottom of the hose at the back of the vacuum as opposed to through the hose leading to the bag.

I also bought a 2nd hand Sebo X4 about 5 years ago now from a private seller off Gumtree in Glasgow. I wondered why the Sebo X4 was going for £40 on the basis that even second hand the prices are above £100 usually. When I got to the home, the home was really well designed, nice and clean and.. they had 4 dogs. When I looked at the machine it had suffered a few scratches - but when I tested it there and then the Odour of the dogs came right through and the seller was good enough to admit that he had tried to put a new hose on it but still the smell of dog was still very much apparent. So we haggled the price down to £20. By the time I got it home and took apart the main floor head, all was apparent to where the odour was coming from - years of pet hair had gunked up the main dust channel pivot and couldn't be accessed unless you took the machine apart. I also washed out the "new hose", tools main filter channel, good as new and all it took was a good inspection and some time to clean it out properly. I sold it on after restoring it to good form for 4 times the price I paid for it - £120!

Clearly owners don't always know how to clean out their machines fully - it's the same with refurbished appliances from several stores like Cash Converter or Cash Generater - they are PAT tested, but that's about all. At least online, several sellers who do sell refurbished vacuums have models that are internally cleaned to the point that almost everything is sparkling/neutral to the nose!

 

[Jakesvacs]

I have a sebo cylinder with an electric bag full indicator and it works pretty well. If the bag is about half full, the light flickers and when its packed its fully on.
Manual ones never have worked,the super suction on todays cleaners just means they are always indicating a full bag.

 

[jmurray01]

Yeah, I think that is the problem with the Tango, it is so powerful the piston indicator comes on by accident.

 

[gsheen]

The problem with manual bag full indicators is how they work, they rely on the suction genirated by the motor to move.


The problems with this is that they need almost full lock suction to move thus only moving when the motor is ready to self destruct.


 


Electronic indicators are more reliable but still rely on suction to create a pressure that pulls on a rubber valve attached to a sensor or switch to get the light or sound to generate. However most are set to such a high setting they only come on when the bag is so full there is no suction. 


The good news is that most of these can be set via a tiny screw on the back of the valve. 


 


We used to use the old brown sebo 360 machines and these had a great easy electronic system, you can set it with ease to come on when the bag is two thirds full to ovoid the staff over filling them 

 

[pr-21]

Didn't Miele's used to have.....

An adjustment screw next to the bag/airflow indicator on the 500 Series? Looked at my S5's and they don't have it.

I like this indicator better that electronic. I let it get about half way across and change the bag.....If the bag seems too full, I then only go about a quarter of the way across and then change the bag....Of course this does depend on what you are vacuuming. Mine is usually just regular household dirt.


Bud Mattingly
PR-21

 

[Timey]

My old TurboMaster has the check bag indicator come on about 7 minutes after a new bag is installed, and it's all clean and lovely inside. I don't trust 'em...

 

[kirby]

i wold just rather use my dyson no bags to be woried about

 

[jmurray01]

Yeah, but in the long run Bagged cleaners are much better and more hygienic. If checking the bag puts you off a Bagged cleaner then you really can't be that interested in Vacuum Cleaners - No offense.

Does the Turbopower range have a screw to adjust the light, do you know ?

 

[danemodsandy]

I've Never....

....Had a "Check Bag" indicator come on at all.

The reason is that I change bags on a time schedule. First of the month, all bags get changed. The bags never really "need" it in the sense of being as full as many people let them get, but I like maximum suction. It's also kind of nice to know I am not getting anywhere near putting stress on the motor.

All together now, class - "Bags are cheap! Motors are expensive!"

 

[jmurray01]

"Bags are cheap! Motors are expensive!"

Bags are cheap! Motors are expensive! Ha ha ha!

 

[sebo_fan]

The worst piston valve bag indicators I found were on the Hoover Telios and Arriane models - they were poorly made and when dust leaked from the bag, you knew about it when you glanced down and could see fluff under the window! I'm not a fan of the mechanical types but I am aware that several brands make different ones as to the seals that they put and in some cases like Hoover, not much sealing! AS JM does refer to, feeling the bag physically is a better condition IF you want to get the highest value out of the bag before changing it. I don't think it has anything to do with being a collector though - many people check their bags if they know they haven't bought more to stock up on.

I must point out though that being a long term Hoover fan when I was younger, I realised that some of the cylinders they made which came with the SMS lifetime fabric dust bag would show the dust bag indicator as being full - this was a big downside because half the time the bag wasn't full and it was the effect of the fabric being sucked in. Hoover also made that mistake with their "Pure Filt" dust bags realising that their machines with the higher wattage of 1700 watts showed a fairer indication on the bag full indicator than machines with 1200 watts or less. This was all in the days before they had synthetic dust bags!

 

[sebo_fan]

Personally JM, if I was up for buying another Hoover upright, I'd return to the original Freedom upright instead of going for the Greenray versions - Hoover charge £179-99 for that Freedom Greenray and you'd be getting a more modern filter system than the one fitted to the Purepower Greenray. That same 1200 watt motor was fitted to the Slalom I had and they were going for £100 last time I looked in Argos but they may not be on sale anymore.

 

[totalvac]

I wouldn't wait until the vacuum tells you the bag is full. Once a bag is about 1/2 full is starts effects how efficient the vacuum is. Make it easier to clean and change it before it's maxed out.

 

[alexhoovers94]

Bag full indicators:


Really to be honest bag full indicator lights are better for telling an everyday consumer if there is a blockage, yes to us vacuum collectors it is clearly obvious that there is a clog but to consumers they don't care what the vacuum sounds like and the brushroll would still pick up some bits on the carpet for the user not to notice unless they use the hose however and no suction comes threw it.

The sebo bag full indicators are pretty acurate I remember mine being 3/4 full and there was not a high pitch (blockage sound) it just sounded like the airflow was restricted a little but the bag full light was flashing so i opened it up and had a look and the bag was almost full so I then replaced it.

My turbopower 2 has never really got that full yet to make use of the bag check indicator however i think it will only really work if I was useing it in high power because there isn't enough suction in the low mode to engage the bag check light, I would have to have a non autosense turbo 2 with bag check light or use my autosense in high all the time to really find out if it is accurate.

I think that the more suction you have from the machine the more sensative the bag full indicator light/piston will be as a more powerfull machine with alot of suction is trying to pull the airflow threw a nearly full bag hense the sensativity of a bag check light.

However like I said at the begging I think bag full indicators are more useful for telling you the machine is blocked rather than the bag being full.

Hope this helps,
Alex.

 

[vintagerepairer]

The most accurate indicators of all were probably those fitted to the exhaust air duct on dirty-fan cleaners, like the Hoover Turbopower, Moulinex, and Hotpoint Universal. They required air to be blown onto the sensor part of the gauge (be it a switch or whatever) to activate the indicator. This would only occur when the exhaust air was under high pressure, like when the bag was full, and never when suction was restricted, like when using tools etc. The tubes for the sensors or the sensors themselves were located in such a place that a blockage was unlikely to occur after it, therefore unlikely to activate due to a blockage.