Advice, looking for the BEST canister (Unhappy w/Miele)

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I beg to differ about the storage of tools on the new Aerus Guardian Platinum: you can only store the crevice tool and the combination upholstery nozzle/dusting brush on the wand. I have always found this storage method inconvenient and annoying since the tools get in your way when you are trying to clean under furniture or high up on mouldings. As well, the combination tool needs to be attached with an adapter and I'm not sure where that adapter is stored. Aerus provides no way to store the floor brush or the mini power nozzle on board like the Kenmore canisters do.

For the money you pay for this vac, Aerus should really include a full-size tool carrier that can store everything including extra bags, filters and the instruction manual....

Just my thoughts on this downside to the Aerus Platinum....
 
Valid points....

I think the Sebo D4 canister is the only one I am aware of at the moment that you can actually get all the accessories on board, including the floor brush which can attach to the back parking slot. Maybe the Riccar canisters can too, Im not sure though
 
George, where in CT?

I just went through all of this and l listened to everyone. It drove me nuts learning, but it forced me to try everything and that made up my mind quickly. I too am in CT and there were some shops I'd never step foot in again.

I like the Miele, except for all the reasons you didn't like it, lol. I didn't like the Simplicity/Riccar either and I tried them again yesterday and even the guy who sells them steered me away from them. His store demo wasn't too old and the cheap plastic around the hose for stress relief was already cracked. He told me that is the third demo that's happened too and that was done to correct the bad hose design. He's also seen a few come back because their controls on the handle kept breaking. He only will keep the line because the older people in FL like US made and that's all they'll look at. Even though the parts are sourced elsewhere, it's still a US company.

I bought the D4 and love it. Long hose, long cord, best power head I personally used but the Aerus is close. Not sure in a head to head who would win. It's plenty powerful as the hose is wider at the base unit creating a Venturi effect. It's L shaped and gets under all my furniture. It's also built like a tank and the filters are as good if not better than anything on the market. The little blue suction light is kind of cool. I thought I'd hate it at first, but I like it. Get white so it won't show scratches, lol. I have a demo black, but it still is looking new.

I did a full bag test of the D4, Capricorn and Moxie. D4 was the only one that didn't really lose any suction. With full bags the other two didn't work for crap. It's like a bagged cyclonic deal. They won some award in Germany for their suction design etc.. Go to www.govacuum.com and see their video's on the Sebo D4. It's their pic for vacuum of the year. I only tried the turbo brush in the store, but it was on a shag and a deep pile and we put dirt down and rubbed it in deeply. We used the Miele and Moxie turbo heads and then cleaned the D4 bag and we picked up enough dirt to make me think their design may be a bit better. Not sure if it was a good test, but the guy in the store wasn't surprised as he sells the Sebo turbo head and the power nozzle with all his central vacuum systems. It's what most of the hospitals in Germany use.

I've learned a great deal about vacuums over here, but I've learned SO much more going to the stores and playing with all of them. The store I went to yesterday sells new, demo or sometimes used Filter Queen, TriStar, Sebo, Rainbow (had a newer one there), Riccar, Miele, Royal and many others. He's owned the stores he owns for ages. I asked him what he uses at home..........he uses the D4. Has used all the others and in the end he loves the new Sebo and said it's the best he's sold as they never come back. Said even Miele will have a bad run every now and then, but not too often. Said he gets all the Riccars back for small stuff. He likes Royal better than it's parent company's offerings, but has had a couple come back, but he said that it's not worth the price for what you are getting. Said the lower cost Panasonic has a poor motor that will last 3-5 years and he's seen a few back for motors within the first 90 days. To me that says something about the QC. I was in there getting my dads Panasonic fixed.

You should check out the jumbo thread we had/have going. NYC Writer started it as he was looking. I personally now like the Lux and Sebo D4 the best, but that's me. You may hate both.

The best advise I can share is to go play with all the vacuums in your price range and bring your own bag of dirt and crap. Force them to fill everyone's bag at least half full and then do the pick up the screws test to see which one keeps suction. That can be a telling test. If they have those filters the Kirby guys use that show how much dirt they pick up AFTER someone else's vac has been used, you could go that route too. I really liked what we did with the turbo brush as I too though I would need a powered head and that limited me to the vacs I ruled out even though I could have gotten them for a GREAT price. I found a guy in CT who gave me a great price on my Sebo and am happy.
 
Well eurekaprince, I don't know what to tell ya.... The tools are ON THE MACHINE. Just because you don't LIKE where they are located doesn't mean they are not there. That doesn't render the Platinum obsolete nor does it make a Kenmore superior to it. Frankly, that's pretty normal in the vac industry to provide those tools on board and many are putting them on the wands these days, including Hoover's Platinum. People can find anything to complain about if they nitpick. Some people here complain because they are IN the machine as well (they might have to bend over). The perfect machine doesn't exist, but no real vacuum person would call a Kenmore superior to an Aerus/Electrolux. Just about any vacuum salesman can attach a particle counter to a Kenmore with dirt in it's bag and a Miele with dirt in it's bag and show the Miele at zero and a Kenmore at 600,000. They don't filter well regardless of what consumer reports says.
 
The only Aerus tool that requires an adapter is the combo upholstery/dusting brush, which is stored on the wand caddy also... Incidently, it looks like Kenmore is putting some of it's tools on the wand handle area also, and using a "bulky" handle to enable multiple uses like Aerus ( hose handle into power nozzle, tools, wand, etc...) Kenmore's intuition doesn't have a power nozzle headlight... While it's Progressive doesn't have a variable speed motor. We're all hoping Aerus will update some of it's features further, but a perfect machine doesn't exist and perhaps never will...
 
The Kenmore Intuition does indeed have a headlight - it's actually placed on the lower tip of the wand - which is a nice feature since you then have illumination on your cleaning surface when using the floor brush or any other attachment connected to the telescopic wand. It's time for Aerus to start including innovative conveniences like this on their vacuum cleaners.

I think all vacmakers should provide a handy tool carrier as part of their deluxe canister packages. If a customer is spending over $700 on a power nozzle canister, they deserve to have a convenient way of storing every accessory including bags and filters. Just my humble opinion....:-)
 
I'm up in Berlin and went all over

You'd be happy with either machine. As long as you put them through your OWN paces and come up with real tests and not the ones they design for you to show off special traits of their favorite machine or the one they want to get rid of, you'll do fine. Do make sure you check out the www.govacuum.com video's on the D4. The guys knows what he's talking about. Since the mini brush is so important, get a scrap of your carpeting if you can and dirty the whole thing up at home. Bring extra with you. Use talc powder, baking soda, flour, heaver grain salt and course sugar. Then get some mud and dirt and let it dry into the carpet after you've smushed it into it. do a side by side and check the bags right after. Then clear the bag and use each one over there you did the other one and see which one pics up what the other didn't and see what type either left behind. Did either get bogged down? A mini PN may be a must for you and your carpet,but these new machines seem really powerful and should be able to not get too bogged down as long as they are designed properly. I played with the Sebo mini head for just a small bit and I'll be getting one. I won't get teh off brand one I don't thini.

Sebo guy, which mini head do you use? Have you seen a difference between Sebo turbo or the knock off that may fit?
 
Kenmore vs Aerus vs Sebo

You cannot compare, they may have everything onboard, but the filtering is no where near Aerus or Sebo... Kenmore is comparable to Panasonic or Hoover. Made in Mexico or Made in China. I've tried out the Kenmore Intuition Upright, Kenmore (Red) Canister and I can tell you the build quality of the more expensive brands are much better. I do not think with Aerus and Sebo or other top of line brands you will find the hand turbo on board. They do this to probably keep down the weight of the machine.
 
Like others here I would suggest an AerusLux. Another suggestion would be the Tristar, they seem very reliable, but not certain about tool storage or if it has an electric mini brush
 
A few things:
-- Most canisters have a cord winder, they only fit a certain amount of cord. Most are 25'. The longest by far is the Sebo D4 and in my mind that is the only benefit of that machine. The Tacony Riccar & Simplicity lines are 28' most Kenmores and Panasonic are 24'- 26'
-- Most canisters on the market are made out of special well tested material that is known as "crush proof". You can step on it, crinkle it up, and it pops right back to life and some how electric current still works. It seems cheap and has a tendency while vacuuming to cut off suction when hose gets full tangled and twisted. But when you straighten the hose out everything pops back to life again. There are only a few companines without this style that still use the thick rubber, and primarily they are Aerus and Panasonic. Panasonic also makes the Kenmore canisters.
-- Most canister hoses are 6'. The Hoover, basic Kenmores, Mieles are all about 6'. Riccar/ Simplicity, Sebo are about 7'- 8' long.
-- Are you an allergy sufferer, I am. However despite being an allergy sufferer I do fine with the filtration on older Hoovers, new Hoovers, Kenmore's, Panasonics. If you are severely allergy allergic or are fearful of dust then you'll the newer sealed systems and excellent S Class HEPA filtration from Riccar, Simplicity, Aerus, Lindhaus, Miracle Mate, Sebo and of course your Miele.
-- As many of stated, there is no perfect machine. Just like there are Vanilla, Chocolate and Strawberry combo pack flavors of ice cream with everyone having a favorite there are many vacuums out there. The one to get depends a lot on the surfaces in your home. If you have hard wood floors, you want rubber coated or non marring wheels this would be the Royal Lexon SR30020, Simplicity, Miele and many others.
-- You mentioned your Miele power nozzle struggling on your thick carpets. Are we talking about 1" long very dense high pile carpet, 2.5" loose weave yarn style carpet or a shorter style yarn/ wool that's a little fluffier and dense but not as dense as a standard medium pile. For any of the looser weave carpets a manual height adjusted power nozzle is probably your best bet, such as Riccar, or Panasonic head. The Sebo heads DO NOT WORK AT ALL ON THE LOOSER WEAVE rugs!!! The circuit board kicks and shuts them off. So if you have those rugs, forget that brand it will be useless to you.

If I were you I would go with Riccar/ Simplicity. They are excellent high quality machines that are extremely durable. There were a few made abroad that were having problems which is why they have changed over their entire line in 2012 with new models that are all made in the U.S at their factory in Missouri. The overall fit/ finish, quality is superb over their previous. Riccars are very powerful. Most of the machines carry a 5 year warranty, while some carry a 3 year warranty. The power nozzles have a 6 position foot pedal activated adjustment, also push pedal handle release. Most of the full size power nozzle have a metal brush roll with 2 rows of brushes, the TOL machine from Riccar and Simplicity such as the Simplicity Gusto have 3 rows of brushes on the power nozzle. The power nozzles are very powerful with lifetime rated serpentine belts. Many would say that the power nozzle on the Riccars are more powerful than Filter Queen, and Aerus. It is also a significantly more powerful, better cleaner and easier to use machine over the Sebo D4.

Someone also mentioned the idea of a central vac. Yes the upfront price will be high for installation and unit. However once installed it has COUNTLESS benefits:
-- Household ammenity-- adds value to house for future sale
-- No emissions-- units vent outside so there is no dust emissions for the house
-- Extremely powerful-- Most central vacuums have tremendous more suction power over normal household vacuum
-- Sort of like using a canister as you're just maneuvering an electric power nozzle and hose.
--Most units are universal fit ends to utilize any number of attachments from Hoover, Kenmore, etc. You can attach the Wessel Werk MEB160 electric mini power nozzle too.
--Most hoses are 30', I would recommend getting the 35' just to ensure you won't have any problem reaching any area of your home. Utilizing the new "crush proof" style hoses they are much lighter weight compared to previous.
--Many power nozzles on the market. The Beam Rugmaster is based off the Eureka Express head and utilizes a well known VGIII brush roll. Or you can high performance and get a Riccar style power nozzle, you could even find the power nozzle that your Kenmore used, they are still on the market, and use that nozzle. Kenmore is just a name and there units were manufactured by Panasonic using Cen-Tec manufactured power nozzles.

I realize this is a lot to digest. I've been cleaning houses for 18 years, helping my clients choose vacuums that are appropriate for their households and excellent cleaning performance while being very efficient with in budget for me to use.

I strongly recommend going to your local trusted vacuum dealer to see what they recommend and what is comfortable for you to use. If you happen to have a sample of carpeting from your house that is hard to vacuum, bring it to the shop with you and the dealer can be more helpful for finding a machine.


Good Luck and feel free to contact my profile if you need further info.
 
I don't see anywhere on Sebo's site mentioning that the D4 has HEPA filters. It is endorsed by the british allergy foundation however so that must mean something. None of the filters in the D4 I played with today looked like HEPA type filters. It even states in Sebo.us D4 brochure that its filters are cheaper than HEPA filters. The owners manual calls it out as a S-Class hospital grade micro filter.

So does that mean that the Sebo wont be as clean as say the Lux Guardian Platinum???


http://www.sebo.us/pdfs/airbelt_d4/airbelt_d4_brochure.pdf
 
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">TriStar vacuums not only are powerful, but they are well-sealed & don't leak dust at all.  And no air escapes elsewhere other than the exhaust end, meaning only <span style="text-decoration: underline;">clean</span> & <span style="text-decoration: underline;">filtered</span> air comes out.</span>


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<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">I'd bet NO other vacuum has 100"+ waterlift & 100% sealed HEPA filtration like a TriStar or the new Aerus Platinum!
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<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">btw, I upgraded my TriStar EXL's motor with the high-performance motor; so suction is INCREDIBLE!  I will be doing a lot more vacing with the EXL.
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<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">http://www.ebay.com/itm/220765583419?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648</span>


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<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">I'm really a sucker for powerful 100"+ suction!
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[this post was last edited: 1/25/2013-20:39]
 
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I wasn't happy with the carpet grooming ability on the new TriStar. Now maybe with that new style green agitator that is supposed to be more aggressive bristle texture it's better.

One night at Vaccrazy's house, a collector on here. We used several vacuums that night. The TriStar MG style and a Sebo upright did not groom well compared to rest of competition. A Meile Blue Moon with SEB236 did very well, a Lux Classic canister did well, and a Silverado with PN4 did well along with several Hoovers that groomed very well and a Eureka Rotomatic power nozzle canister that did very well. Kirby Sentria groomed ok.
 
Sebo D4`

Durango, I know you've mentioned the run problem, but I have a few area rugs (especially the bathroom) that have the long loose thread dense carpets and I haven't had a problem with it yet. I"m not totally sure I understand what the problem can be. I have so many different surfaces in my house and so far the Sebo has been a dream. maybe that's because anything is an upgrade over the Oreck upright,lol. Also the filter is down to 3 microns I believe. It's why it's the first choice for hospitals in much of Europe under their parent company's name.

The powehead on it is great for me. Many of us really like the low profile and L shape of it to get in and around nearly all furniture.

Lux is a GREAT machine, but it would have cost me over 600 more than the 699 I paid and that's assuming someone would have sold it to me for 1299. To me, that was a no brainer in the end.

A big reason I never got excited over the Simplicity or Riccar upper end canisters is because the demo's in every store looked worn. Every dealer I've been to of either were selling off at low prices and all complained about problems even with the US made units. I even have seen the plastic deal around the ends of the hose to help with stress breaking off. I've yet to see one that wasn't broken and that scared me off no matter how much metal may be on the base plate of the power nozzle. I think it's still a great machine and worthy contender for many folks.

For me, I cared more about how good the suction was as the power nozzle with at least half full bags. Any machine can pick up most dirt when the bag isn't at least half full. The water tests don't mean much other than the suction AT the motor I believe. 95 on that meter is plenty as long as you have the technology to use it on the other end (PN end). Most of us don't seem to even use the suction on full most of the time.

I'm so new at this, but I fully understand engineering and I've done exhaustive research as it's been a ball for me to learn about your hobby.

As you pointed out, there are a few that just stand out for various reasons and until Riccar/Simplicity comes out with their new models that should give us most everything we feel any TOL machine is lacking now, we have the:

Tri Star
Fliter Queen
Rainbow
Miele S5 or better yet the new S8's
Sebo D4
Lux Plat


What else did I miss for canisters?

Sounds like you just need to see how important the long hose/cord deal is. Whittle the list from there and then figure out what you can go without since there is NO machine on the market that will give you everything you want right now. It's a shame as I bet this whole board could come to near consensus to what the perfect canister would be.
 
Canister's Uggghhhhh.....

Man "O" Man::: How I hate dragging a Canister behind me.......what a pain, the hose is never, never, ever where you want it. On older vaccums the hose is forever getting kinked or even worse flipping the machine over, because you have tried to unravel it. Try cleaning a 2400 SQ.Ft. home with a cannister. Much easier and quicker with an uprite. Oh, and for stairs piece of cake..!!

My 2 cents get an Uprite with the bare fllor selector. My machine has no selector but it really does not matter because it causes no damage to the cheap laminate flooring.

UPRITES,,RULE.....:)
 
for me there is no question

that the upright isn't close to my new canister. I have half wood and tile. Maybe more. Now I can get under all my furniture and with my MS, it's easier to get the stairs and to dust. I'm sure the uprights can have a long hose to attach to do dusting and stairs, but that defeats the purpose for my money.

I'm glad you love the upright, but for many of us, a canister just makes so much more sense.
 
Waited awhile before saying anything-my place has WW carpet.Kirby or metal Royal is first choice for the carpets.A companion Canister or canisters--all of 'em get a turn in my collection at some time or another.I have both Meile and Sebo canisters-like em both.the Sebo has the longer cord-so less outlet hunting.For really deep cleaning use My Kirby Sentria connected by its hose to my NSS M1 commercial canister.NSS M1 are heavy and large-they have HUGE paper bags-great for large job cleanups-for a breif time I was cleaning homes-that is what I used.Used an NSS powernozzle with the M1.His house had a central vacuum-he didn't like it-so I used the NSS-much better.Remember with central vacuums the unit has to pull thru all of that plumbing in the house-in the ones I have used-there is a suction and CFM loss.Esp if the system is old and debris will collect in the plumbing.I have cleaned some of these out-using the M1-surprizing how much dirt collects in the central vacs plumbing.Also I don't like dragging around cental vac hoses-more awkward to me than a portable machine.Portable machine filtration is much better these days-so the central unit filtration may be rather moot.Oh yes--when that freind moved from his place-used the M1 for the final cleanout.Did the garage,too!Just like using my M1!
 
Just correcting myself here... It appears I was incorrect regarding the Kenmore Progressive lacking variable speed motor. It does indeed have 3 speeds. Perhaps I was thinking of a blower function, which it lacks. I personally wouldn't buy one, but it is a decent vac as mass produced store brands go and might be the right choice for you. Good luck.
 
The only brand of newer canister I have experience with is Kenmore. All of the Progressives (white, blueberry, and red) have variable speed controls. I have the red model. It has an 8 foot hose, the others have 6 and 7 foot hoses. The wand is telescoping and has a built in LED light like the Intuition. The attachments I find decent. Mine has a horsehair dusting brush, rubber-like upholstery tool, crevice tool, and horsehair bare floor tool. The crevice tool lets air leak at the sides so it doesn't provide much suction. The floor tool an upholstery tool store on the canister, the dusting brush and crevice tool are on the hose handle. The Pet Powermate tool stores on board the canister also.

Kenmore claims True HEPA AAFA certified. To get this, you must use the HEPA cloth bags which cost about $5 each.

The build quality is decent, but as others stated not as good as Miele, Aerus, etc.

The Intuition has more attachments, but it is quite expensive and I hear the floor nozzle that docks with the power nozzle has reliability problems with wheels falling off, etc. It has a horsehair dusting brush and angle brush that store on board as well as the crevice tool and Pet Powermate.
 
I get it!

George - You are going to get a ton as you can see options from Members here. I was in the same boat several years ago. I wanted to to put in a central system. I heard the good, the bad and the ugly. I visited with a reputable store and took several systems for a spin. I ultimately elected on a system and glad I did. I love central systems it fit how I clean and the house layout was perfect for it. Then...

The Army moved me to Utah. This house would never work with a central system. Too many tight corners and to many expansive spaces to make it feasible. I elected to get the New Rainbow and love it.

I have allergies and the salt plains here make for lots and lots of dust. The Rainbow is a perfect fit for ME! The system is all I could hope for and more. Would I do a central again? Yes, but not here. Maybe at retirement I will. For now the Rainbow is a good fit.

Like you I am not a fan of the Miele. The biggest issue is what I called "belly flopping" on plush carpet. The wheels are so small it would glide across the room on the belly. Leaving a nasty carpet mark and so I returned the machine the same day I got it.

The advice to take a carpet sample to the store is a great one; I plan to remember that if I buy another machine. Basically, go test drive them. Play with them and make the pro and cons list. You have been provided with a good list of great machines so good luck to you! The perfect machine for you is someplace, just got to find it!
 
ctsooner ...

"I'm glad you love the upright, but for many of us, a canister just makes so much more sense."

I second this motion.

I've been a die-hard upright user for four decades, but after visiting this website as I'm looking for a new vacuum (and keeping an open mind), I've had my own "Come to Jesus" moment about canisters, and how they really are much more appropriate for my Manhattan apartment.
 

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