A collection of Sebo X/C/370 series bags

[Reflector]

Hi, first post on Vacuumland. Just wanted to share some images of the various Sebo bags plus a generic synthetic bag I have.

From left to right:
1. Original Sebo paper bag
2. Sebo HEPA Service Box "Ultra-Bag"
3. Sebo Europe Ultra-Bag (Apparently not avaliable in North America)
4. A generic synthetic bag, originally procured in the place of proper Ultra Bags for a test.

I'll upload some more high resolution macro shots later that include the bag material through the mounting collar and some shots where I illuminate the bags with a bright light behind them.

 

[turbo500]

I have to say, the new ultra bags are pretty darn good!

 

[ultralux88]

I find it extremely frustrating that Sebo won't sell the HEPA bags over here in the US. Although I can't say I have ever really seen a Sebo bag leak a significant amount of dust, even the regular brown paper bags in machines that are cared for properly never seem to have more than the tiniest among of dirt up around where the bag connects, and I haven't seen anything get past the Ultra-Bag and on to the HEPA filter that I have in my clear X4. Also, the Ultra-Bags for the uprights are only available in the HEPA service box here in the US.

 

[Reflector]

Here's a closeup of the collar portion of the bags in high resolution (4608x3456). Not sure if they're uploading right, they're fairly large files and I can't seem to preview the post with full size images. They're in the same order as before.

A little note: The (Non HEPA Box) Ultra Bag is a little deceiving in appearance, the material changes in the pattern as you get towards the bottom of the bag. Abeit I still find it a little "thin" material wise, I don't have any particle counters in my posession to test the difference between the Ultra Bag and the generic synthetic bag I have, as I noticed the material of the generic synthetic is actually fairly thick. It also has definitive layers, as there's a clear, translucent layer on the outside of the bag that isn't laminated to the layer below. If anyone is interested in numbers I'll go micrometer a single layer of each of the bags later.

I'll post the next set of photos where I have a bright light under the bags.

Ultralux have you checked the little sealing gasket around your X4? I found that my C3.1 doesn't have the little sealing gasket like my X4. I'm not sure if that's supposed to be the case with the C3.1 since I got it second hand like my X4, but noticed that the tube that goes into the collar is supposed to be a tight fit. I added a O-Ring of slightly smaller diameter over the tube and I found that I reduced the amoutn of fine dust that accumulates on the collar. Otherwise the interior doesn't have any dust even with the paper bags (I believe the previous owner did not treat the machine so well, I found that it had some buildup in the microfilter but it has usable life on it still) but I haven't tried using my C3.1 with any powder like substances (Not without attaching a large cyclone unit infront of it. I have an external, large cyclone unit that's designed to be powdered by Shopvacs or other 2.5" tube vacuums that I have an adapter for my C3.1)

Also if anyone is interested, I have a set of genuine Hoover S bags that I can take macro photos of. I have a standard paper bag, a microfiltration bag and a HEPA bag plus some generics I believe.

 

[madaboutsebo]

Have to say the synthetic bags SEBO did for the Felix are very good prefer them over the paper ones.

I've noticed a small amount of fine dust collects around the inlet tube on my Felix as there is no rubber gasket. There is just a tight fit between inlet tube and bag collar opening. Surprised a rubber gasket is not fitted.

 

[blackheart]

oooh!

I hate those ultra bags! I had at least two of them rip away from the plastic collar leaving debris in the bottom of my Sensor S12

 

[Reflector]

I still haven't had a chance to test anything outside of the original paper bags and the generic synthetic bag. I found that the generic synthetic (And as well as the HEPA Ultra Bag) significantly improved the flow of my vacuums (Just taking the tube off the X4 and putting it up against my hand to compare to a brand new paper bags compared to the synthetic and the HEPA Ultra Bag)

Blackheart have you contacted Sebo about that? I remember there was a thread that someone had the same thing happen to them and they got a box of bags from Sebo US.

Pardon the dust, I haven't had a chance to really wipe down the interiors:

The first photo shows the small gasket that my X4 has. The X4 doesn't really have any bypass of dust from the collar from what I notice.
The second photo shows the o-ring stack I placed onto my C3.1's tube. I've noticed it dramatically reduces the amount of debris on the collar. Previously I could open the chamber up and see some bypass. Now I haven't really had any real buildup on the collar even after long operational periods.

 

[blackheart]

Yup

I did send them an email, but received no response.

 

[Reflector]

I would call them up at this point. I've sent an email before in the past and I got a rseponse. When I asked if the European Ultra Bags would ever make it to the US I never got a reply but instead I found a source for them at reasonable shipping rates.

Photos in same sequence before:
Paper Bag
HEPA Box Ultra Bag
Ultra Bag
Generic Sythnetic

 

[blackheart]

Eh

I don't have any Sebos now so that would not be worthwhile. Before i sold them i was considering trying these bags made by crucial vacuum, they look pretty nice.

http://www.crucialvacuum.com/vacuum-bags/sebo-windsor-sensor-cloth-bags-10pk.html

 

[Reflector]

Those are the exact bags I have for the generic synthetic on the far right. I don't have anything for generic paper bags since the Sebo paper bags are already well priced and I wouldn't go any less for filtration performance.

 

[Reflector]

Just an update

I finally tossed the paper bag, it was getting pretty full to the point that it was packed like a bag of flour towards the bottom 2/3rds. There was some loss of flow and vacuum pressure from all the vacuuming with the paper bag. I didn't feel any fine powdery dust on the outside of the bag or in the chamber and that's pretty much the same case with the X4.

The European Ultra Bag provided some mindblowing improvements. When I tested the Dyson Tangle Free Tool (For reference: It'll mount bare onto the C3.1 and D4's electrified extension tube if you wrap a little tape around it, otherwise I have an adapter for attaching it onto the C3.1's handle, it doesn't have a completely round interior diameter like the X4's hose or extension hose. For the curious: I couldn't find my Sebo/Wessel Work turbo brush.) with the paper bag I could slow the brush rotation significantly by aggressively mashing it into the carpet, but with the new Ultra Bag I wasn't able to even remotely stall it, unloading the tool from the carpet was pretty loud with it spinning signifciantly faster than before.

I think the suction improvement was similiar to what the generic synthetic bags, but I think I hear a tiny bit of an audible difference from the Dyson TFT when it is unloaded and freely spinning, with a bit of a higher pitch coming from the European Ultra bag indicating a bit more flow.

 

[marcusprit]

Are the bags in the US HEPA service box different to the European Ultra bags?

 

[Reflector]

HEPA Ultra Bags

They're the second one from left to right. They're the "HEPA Box Ultra Bag," which has the additional layer of paper ontop of the synthetic material. Unlike the generic, it has part of the lamination structure found on the European Ultra Bag where it has sections where if you shine a bright enough light at it, you'll notice that more light passes through a small double dashed line where it appears they thermally laminated the material. The material is a little more similiar to the soft synthetic mateiral on the generic instead of the hard and more crisp feeling material on the European Ultra Bag. Strangely, they're made in Belgium and not Germany.

I'll see if I can take a picture of the lamination pattern difference between the HEPA Box Ultra Bag and the European Ultra Bag. The generics don't have that and if I lightly rub the bag I can actually pull up the outer layer of material a little. The layer reminds me of the microlining material found in the paper bag, but with greater density on the fibers. On the HEPA Box Ultra Bags the material seems significantly different, in that it doesn't "lift up" and it is significantly thicker. It seems like the material is a single piece and not multiple layers.

I haven't had a chance to put one on given how long the bags last and I have 16 of the HEPA Box Ultra Bags (A set from the X4 box and a set from the C3.1 box), but once I do I'll update this topic and report on the airflow. Going from the multi-layer paper bag to the Ultra Bags (As well as the generic synthetics) dramatically increased flow, even against a fresh paper bag. Even better is that the flow has been staying fairly consistent, there's a small drop in the beginning but then it leveled out. I still can't stall the Dyson TFT tool by pushing it against the same spot of carpet (For consistency in testing) even with the small drop during initial usage and it still spins significantly faster than it would if it were being driven by the C3.1 with a multilayer paper bag. It feels like both the C3.1 and X4 received a significant motor upgrade at this point, to the point I want to say they have 2-3x the flow... Or at least 3x when I put the bag in initially and it drops to 2.5 to 2-ish after significant usage (To the point the bag has a good amount of accumuluated dirt towards the bottom).

 

[sebo_fan]

The beauty of the Ultra bag is that you can actually use it again. Depends on what it has been filled with of course to begin with. The bag can be shaken out, turned inside out and either vacuumed with another vac to get rid of the clogged dust in the pores OR wash on a low temp in a washing machine. I tried it a couple of times and find that the bag, once shaken out can be used again before put into a washing machine. After the third use of being washed in a machine though, the bag starts to lose its strength. Then either allow to dry over a radiator for about a day, or tumble dry in a low temp program placed inside a tied pillow case.

In dire emergencies I would suggest that using the bag a second time should probably be enough before you buy more bags.

 

[marcusprit]

They're quite inexspensive to buy anyway.

 

[sebo_fan]

A little bit of my knowledge...

The white paper HEPA bags were not available in the U.S only but also in Germany. I remember one came fitted to the X4 I bought. SEBO UK confirmed that they did not have the white bags for the X and had tested the white bag and found it offered very little difference to the brown bags.

There are actually TWO brown bags - original ones had smaller fitting details drawn on plus company address compared to the one shown in the first photo.

The Ultra synthetic dust bag shown in the far right hand side was an experiemental Ultra bag that SEBO in Europe tested in 2011 and put out a few to dealers to test. Shortly afterwards, copy bags with the same design appeared, non-genuine with poorer plastic that could pull away from the dust channel.

The Third Ultra bag with the light green writing is now available in the UK; they came out at the end of January 2014 to replace the experimental bags. (see thread http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?23607)

I've also added a pic of the bag that SEBO sent me in early 2012 showing off the experimental bag - I sent one of these ultra bags to another member on here.

 

[Reflector]

Reuse?

I remember reading that someone reused their Ultra Bag by vacuuming it out with another vacuum and found that their filter got a little more dirtier with use than usual. I'm curious if you found if that's the case as well.

I haven't tried out the HEPA Box Ultra Bag yet, but I suspect the real improvement from it is the flow given the liner material inside the bag. I'll have to test it for myself before I can say anything at this point.

 

[sebo_fan]

Nope, no dirtier filter here. But then I also clean the filter periodically. It can be brushed clean using the straight T upholstery brush. Others have untied them and washed them, using fresh computer ties on the sock after it has dried out.

The SEBO X was after all, designed to be user maintenance friendly, but a lot of the parts are also reuseable and economical : )

I forgot to mention that SEBO also had a problem with the Ultra white paper bags inclined to pull away from the cartridge holders. They also had that problem with the K series bags which is one of the reasons to why they changed the K series bags first of all to the synthetic types. The X series was one of the last models in SEBO's range to get the Ultra bags; none of the commercial uprights have yet had synthetic dust bags made with the Genuine name, though copy bags are available.