My Vax / TTI nightmare and now ruined carpet

[matt8808]

On the 24th October I decided to replace my Numatic George.
George had been bought purely to be used as an extraction machine and was at this point only a few months old, however I decided he was hard work.

Don't get me wrong, the results he gives were satisfactory, but I'm around 6ft4 in height and it was back breaking work for me. So I decided I'd try an upright carpet cleaner - The Vax Dual Power Pro.

I had high hopes for this machine and intended to do a full review on it, so before I'd even powered it up for the first time I'd taken some pics of the machine and a 'before' picture of our living room carpet.

 

[matt8808]

I knew this carpet was okay to wash, as I'd previously cleaned it with both my Kirby Sentria II and the Numatic George.

So off I went. First impression was that the Vax was so much easier to use. However it was very noisy and the water recovery wasn't too impressive.

For every tank of clean water used I was lucky to recover half a tank of dirty water.

The machine had been used as per the user manual, two strokes on wash mode and then two strokes on rinse mode. Followed my multiple dry strokes to try and extract as much water as possible. I've had upright carpet cleaners before so the whole 'how to use' was something I was more than familiar with.

I finished the room and decided the carpet was left damper than I'd like, so I went to fetch George to go over it all and try and extract some more water.

Upon going to plug George in to the power outlet I discovered my worst nightmare - The Vax had perfromed so poorly it had caused the carpet to shrink!!!

 

[matt8808]

When I lifted a corner of the carpet I found the backing and underlay were saturated.

I went over the room with the Numatic George machine and extracted as much of what the vax had left as I could. However the damage was done. It took FOUR days for the carpet and underlay to dry. And that was with us running the central heating constantly along with running a dehumidifier in the room too.

Once dry the carpet had not only shrank, but had began to buckle and ripple up in places

 

[kirbymodel2c]

Hi Matt...

<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">Sorry to hear about your carpet. It was such a nice carpet. I had a Vax once do a similar thing to my granny's carpet many years ago. I hope you get your carpet sorted out.</span>


 


<span style="font-family: book antiqua,palatino;">James</span>

 

[matt8808]

I was straight on to Vax.
They seemed more than helpfull at first and arranged for an independant company - Service Master - to come and inspect the damaged carpet.

A few days later Service Master arrived and took a look at the carpet.
The man said it was clear the machine had dispensed too much water and not recovered it properly, causing the backing of the carpet to become staturated thus causing the shrinkage. He indicated he would be stating this in his report to Vax and off he went.

I then had to send the machine off to Vax for them to inspect.

Prior to me sending the machine to Vax I inspected it myself. I found that when powered up on a low pile entrance rug, the force from the brushes spinning caused the suction nozzle to lift away from and loose contact with the floor. If it had been doing this on the living room carpet it would explain the poor extraction results - pictured are two images. One with the machine powered off and the other with the machine powered on. I also took a detailed video of this issue just in case Vax tried to be awkward

 

[matt8808]

While inspecting the machine I also managed to cause a small amount of damage to the hose assemly... You'll see why this comes in usefull later in the saga....

So anyway I inspected the machine, found the issue with the nozzle loosing contact with the floor and then packed it up and sent it off to Vax.

28 days later I got their official reply.

Basically they weren't going to pay for the damage caused as there was NOTHING wrong with the machine. They stated the the Service Master report said the carpet was not suitable for washing and that I had failed to do a spot test ect.


The whole letter was riddled with inaccuracies.

First off I contacted Service Master ragarding Vax's references to their report. Service Master indicated that what Vax had said was not correct, and they requested a copy of the letter Vax had sent me. They then sent a copy of Vax's latter along with a copy of their actual report to their head office for it to be investigated.

I then sent Vax a scathing reply.

Here is a copy of my reply to their decision not to pay for the damaged flooring...




Thank you for your letter regarding Case Ref : XXXXXXXX
It really was a laugh a minute... I mean where do I even begin?

To start with, please take this as my appeal regarding the decision not to pay for the damage to my flooring.
As requested in the letter I will also send a copy of this e-mail in the post.

I'll go through the letter I have received and point out the many issues -

First off, you say you received the machine back in 'almost unused condition' and that there were 'no signs of failure or malfunction on any part or component'.
I'd like to draw your attention to the two images I sent to you, showing how when the machine was powered up the brush assembly lifted the suction nozzle away from the flooring. I'll include these two images again with this email.
I'd also like to point out that I have a detailed video of this and I will upload it to YouTube and send you a link if required.
Would this not be considered a malfunction?

I'd like to focus a bit more on the claim that ''there were no signs of failure or malfunction with any part or component'.
See here's the issue I have with this claim. When packing the machine to return it to yourselves, I noticed there was a split in part of the hose assembly.
I assumed this damage had been caused since using the machine, as I would assume I would have noticed it during use.
This split is momentarily visible during the video I have made to show the issue of the brushes pushing the suction area away from the floor. I have taken a screen shot of this and highlighted the split in red for you.
I noticed it when packing the machine, it can be seen in the video, and yet your inspection department missed it?
May I ask, do you perhaps have Stevie Wonder working for you? Because these are just two potentially major issues with the machine that they seem to of missed.

I've also included a picture of my saturated underlay - is it considered normal for one of your machines to do this?

Regarding the references to my damaged carpet. You say 'the pile on your carpet has distorted and the user guide recommends testing for this' - No. The pile on my carpet has NOT distorted. The pile of my carpet still looks like new. After all, the carpet is barely two years old. You can clearly see the carpet pile is undamaged from the many many pictures already sent.

In your letter you also claim that the Vax machine was used to clean all other rooms in the house without issue.
This again is not the case. As I have explained to yourself already, and also to the man from Service Master, I had cleaned all the other rooms in my home with my Numatic George machine prior to buying the Vax. I decided the Numatic machine was hard work and bought the Vax to clean the final room - the living room. The room with the now ruined carpet.

Regarding your claims reference the Service Master report. This shocks me. As the man that visited us from Service Master seemed to think the damage was cause by your machine over wetting the floor. He even said to us that he was going to say this in his report.
Needless to say I have contacted the Service Master branch that visited my home regarding your letter. They seemed very concerned with what you have suggested in your letter and have requested a copy of it so that they can contact your head office.

Regarding Service Masters claim that 'the shrinkage would of occurred within minutes of the cleaning commencing' - please do 'google' how a carpet shrinks. The carpet has shrank from being over wet - due I assume to the incredibly poor extraction from your machine - this has allowed the water to soak through the pile, into the backing of the carpet and the underlay, causing the carpet to shrink. It is NOT something that happens in the blink of an eye, and is in fact something that continued to happen for the 4 days to took the carpet to dry. This is not something that would of been visible had I tested the machine in a small area as your user manual suggests. Again, I understand Service Master will be in touch regarding this.

Perhaps you could supply me with a copy of the report Service Master have sent you?

Regarding your user guide reference towards checking with the carpet maker prior to cleaning. Tell me, how is it that I have washed this carpet multiple times before using both a Numatic George extraction machine and a Kirby Sentria II without issue, yet your machine has ruined it? Surely this confirms the carpet is more than suitable for cleaning as no other machine has caused any issue?

And regards the machine not being suitable for the carpet type because it had a brush bar - my Kirby shampoo system has a brush bar - a much larger brush assembly than that in the Vax - and yet this has caused no damage? But then again, the Vax brush bar has caused no damage either, as the pile distortion you refer to does not exist.

I would advise you refer my case to your appeals department, with my many concerns listed above.
In the mean time I will be in contact with trading standards and chase up Service Master in regards to their concerns and them contacting your head office.
I will also seek advice from my solicitor if needed.

Regards

 

[matt8808]

I told you the damage to the hose would come in useful didn't I?

Vax had sent me a letter saying there was nothing wrong with the machine and that the damage caused was my fault.

Yet I had photographic and video evidence of faults AND damage on the machine.

So my appeal was launched and they would review my case.

14 days later I got a cracking letter from them.

They've apologised for admin errors causing my case to be mixed up with another case, resulting in a lot of the untrue rubbish they had said in the first letter.

Apparently they've offered more training to their staff to avoid this happening again and have thanked me for highlighting the issue LOL apparently they were genuine mistakes and not just them thinking I could be fobbed off easily so they could get out of paying for any damage.

They've also inspected the machine again and guess what.... this time they can find faults!!!!
Funny, because the first time they inspected it everything was fine.
Apparently the huge hole in the side of the hose wasn't an issue, but they found a fault with the handle release that has apparently resulted in the poor extraction job as it wasn't allowing the floor head to contact the floor properly.

They offered £450 compensation and I grabbed it with both hands. I just wanted to put the whole nightmare behind me and get the carpet replaced

 

[matt8808]

As the ruined carpet is barely two years old, the premium underlay is still like new and can be re-used, helping reduce cost.

We're going for a Tartan pattern carpet (hoping it will look good) and a rough costing is £630 for the carpet itself while re-using our current underlay.

I'm pleased that Vax have coughed up anything at all, and the 450 from them certainly goes a long way towards replacing the carpet, but I'll never buy another TTI product again. This experience has left a very bitter taste in my mouth and in regards to an extraction type carpet washer I'll be sticking to my Numatic George. He may be hard work but at least he has never ruined a carpet!!

 

[matt8808]

I should probably add.....

that Vax have also refunded the money I spent buying the machine in the first place as well

 

[turbo500]

Well it's about time!

Glad you got it sorted at long last.

 

[sebo_fan]

Good on you for taking on Vax!

 

[matt8808]

Carpet company have been today to measure properly. It's ordered. We're going tartan LOL

Comes to £700 exactly without the underlay. The guy took a look at our current underlay today and agreed it was pointless replacing it. Gets fitted on 6th January


I'll be glad once it is fitted and I can forget the whole saga!

 

[henrydreyfuss]

Great investigative work

Honestly I'm surprised Vax is giving you money to replace your carpeting. I've NEVER heard of a vacuum company doing something like that. But clearly the machine is at fault. Good to know that despite the nice looking agitation, this is a model to steer clear of.

 

[citroenbx]

vax are not like they were back in the day

byebye good vax vacuums

 

[matt8808]

I suppose if the machine was at fault they have a level of responsibility to rectify the damage caused.

And Citroen....how can you call those machines 'good'? They had poor filtration and gave a poor wash performance due to the lack of a powered water pump!

 

[parwaz786]

I saw your Facebook post on this to Vax UK

We had a Vax 6140 (Pets version of the 6131 but in red) like 5 years ago, was an okay vacuum, but for washing i wasn't that great. It would be alright for sucking up spills etc, but even extracting the water from the carpet was minimal. The wash head had extremely little suction, even though the vacuum itself had powerful suction from the hose and wand. I wonder what Bissell are like.

 

[floor-a-matic]

Why not get a new Rainbow E3 Onyx? The AquaMate will do MUCH better than a carpet steam vac ever could

 

[vintagerepairer]

"I suppose if the machine was at fault they have a level of responsibility to rectify the damage caused"

This is where it's very confusing in UK law, because a manufacturer has absolutely no contract with a consumer what so ever, unless the manufacturer has sold direct to the public, in which case they are both manufacturer and retailer. As such, there is no obligation on the part of a manufacturer to do anything when there is a problem - this falls to the retailer.

However, as we all know, a manufacturer usually offers some sort of guarantee which is in addition to a consumers statutory rights, and once a guarantee has been offered it is supposed to be honoured.

Manufacturing faults and product recalls are often handled by the manufacture as a matter of goodwill or other moral obligation. But rarely are they duty bound to do something about a problem. Usually being forced into rectifying a situation comes after consumer pressure or a court ruling.

 

[sebo_fan]

I like my new Vax tub. Yeah it is noisier and it takes a bit more effort to wash carpets with..

But, the more important factor I've realised is that I am no longer wearing out my carpet.

Carpet textures are not always the same; yet whilst they may require a moving brush roll to remove dirt when DRY, in my experience aggressive brush rolls can cause more damage to carpet when WET. I know from experience that my old Bissell upright used to rip out a lot of wool when it was used to wash my carpets. I can't afford to keep replacing carpet for the sake of keeping it clean.

Ive returned to using suction only wash heads, and at times where it requires, the Vax Spinascrub brush floor head. It does a good job and it alleviates the pushing when using the standard floor head.