What is with strange off-set on Power Nozzles ?

[delaneymeegan]

 


 I don't generally look at new vacuums, they're mostly junk, black/gray, and ugly, so, they're just not up to what I expect.  I've noticed something that looks very regressive.


 


Can someone explain what they were thinking in making these clunky looking power nozzles that have a weird bent off-set at the neck?


 


It looks absolutely silly ,  awkward, clumsy, sloppy and easily broken.  Plus you lose control of the pn, and the wand no longer folds flat to the floor to make vacuuming under low furnishings possible.  Being able to vacuum under furnishings is one of the selling points of a canister vs an upright.


 


It looks so "retarded".  lol.


 


The wand should come directly into the pn with a single hinged pivot point.  That's the way it's always been and it works fine.


 

 

[eurekaprince]

I agree. These swivel necks on power nozzles (especially high end Kenmores) seem to be a marketing response to the recent obsession with reducing wrist fatigue while pushing around an upright vac. Dyson started the obsession by overblowing the entire importance and urgency of making an upright vacuum easier to turn around corners. This may be a valid point for a heavy upright, but for a light power nozzle, it really is unnecessary.

Most power nozzle wands are already designed to rotate 45 degrees in the neck at floor level. Eureka's first Roto-Matic power nozzles swivelled at the neck so that you could turn the handle a quarter-turn to allow it to lie flat for cleaning under low furniture. But they never needed a bent neck to make them manoeuver more easily...

 

[vacerator]

Brian,

I agree. I like my Eureka first generation rotomatic, but one wheel has worn more than the other, making it difficult to maneuver.
Have you had this experience? I wonder what causes it.

 

[n0oxy]

power nozzles

Which power nozzle are you referring to? I'm a blind person so cannot see the pictures which is why I was asking. Some of the high quality power heads such as the Sebo and Lindhaus allow their necks to go up and down as well as side to side which helps to get in to corners. At this point, I don't have any button locking wands, just friction fit and was actually wondering if these would stay attached while cleaning my area rugs, works fine. In particular, the Sebo power head feels like it wants to run away while I am using it.

 

[speedqueen]

I agree

My nonswivel, non twist, pn1 on my 1205 works just fine, thank you very much. No new fangled nonsense for me.

 

[vacerator]

It is

Panasonics new power nozzle with vent vanes in the top which open when extra air flow is needed.

 

[delaneymeegan]

 


 


 


 


I think we can agree, the fish scale vents have nothing to do with the needless off-set neck.

 

[kenkart]

Im with you!

Most are monstrosities, No one will agree with me, but one of the BEST power nozzles ever was the small Filter Queen nozzle, and the Douglas that no one likes, small and low.

 

[vacerator]

Hans, Delaney

certainly, lower is better. I was only identifying the power nozzle. Fish scales, I like that description.
What about the early 70's Kenmore powermates without headlights?
They look offset to me.

 

[luxflairguy]

Hans!
I totally with you about the Filter Queen power nozzle! I loved them and still do. When they introduced the wider one, well forget it. Clumsy. I used a FQ nozzle for years and had both an all brush model and one with beater bars. Preferred the all brush one. Then Electrolux introduced their wider nozzles...I loved them and then found to me, they didn't clean as deeply. Tried virtually everything on the market and have settled on the original WesselWork. The Lindhaus I felt I could never get adjusted "just right." So my daily driver on my central is either a TurboCat or the FQ. Thought now that I have a long haired SHEDDING cat, I'm going to have to bring all my nozzles out! Play time can commence! Greg

 

[vacerator]

re; Turbocat

When I installed my Hoover central vac, I tried one, and returned it the next day. Too clumsy for my liking. I got a Beam hose and Rugmaster power nozzle.

 

[vacerator]

re; cats cont.

My rottie didn't like cats, but in defense of his integrity,
if anyone was welcome in my home, he'd extend his paw to them, put his chin on their knee, then lay down, and roll on his back for a nice massage.
His owner the same.
Life is amazing. Some learn more in a month in the sixth grade than many do by high school graduation.
Peace.

 

[fan-of-fans]

When I first read offset I thought you were referring to those where the neck is offset to one side, like Electrolux or older Kenmore PN.

But I see what you are referring to in the pivot. My red Kenmore Progressive PN has a neck like that and they call it Swivel + Steering. I have to say after using older PN from Electrolux and the Kenmore PN back from the 80s, I love it.

It is so much easier to manuever the PN with this steering system. They made a stick like upright as well with the same PN and it looked really handy.

I do have to agree with the post above where it seems some PN want to run away. Mine has the stiffer brushes and it tends to pull itself forward and is a little more difficult to pull backward. If you turn it on with the handle up and let go, it will run in circles and short pile carpet, as it did in the store when I was testing it.

 

[vacerator]

Thats what I thought offset meant

also. Miele power nozzles have always been made this way. At least since 1996.

 

[durango159]

I took a lot of time taking pictures to illustrate my view!

This thread seems to encompass numerous topics. I've addressed a few below based on my experience. There are many pictures and examples to help tell how a straight nozzle acts vs. a rotational 45 degree wand vs. a swivel wand. I own each!

1. Offset-- Generally offset in a power nozzle is the position of the elbow in its relative position in the nozzle being offset from the middle. So general from the users point of the view the handle elbow might be closer to the right side of the nozzle as the motor takes up the majority of the left side of the unit.
*** See green Hoover PowerMax nozzle photo for example. Photo 1

2. "Fish Scales"--AKA: Top Airflow vents-- Panasonic/ Kenmore CenTecs response to newer style ultrasoft carpet fiber that numerous vacuum cleaners of all ages are struggling to clean and also a struggle for user to use. The attached link is a YouTube video produced by Panasonic, fully describing the interesting technology.

3. Bulky, Clunky, Junky, ugly power nozzle wand connections-- Many of the new elbows are swivel.
Some of you may be aware that I am a power nozzle canister extreme lover if you will! My Hoover Celebrity, Windtunnel and PowerMax nozzles are a straight connection no rotation or anything. Eureka Rotomatic, WorldVac and Hoover Quadraflex rotate 45 degrees-- the Quadraflex system is the best because it will lock into either position.

Perhaps some of you have experienced similar where the weight of the hose causes the wand to constantly rotate within the groove where the round pin is housed within a free open sliding rotation groove. Some examples are: Kenmore standard- NON-QUICK release systems wand systems and numerous Eurekas.
***See photo of Eureka power nozzle wand as example: Photo 2, Photo 3 shows how the hose wands to store sideways rather than facing front due to weight.

Follow numerous photos taken of my Simplicity Verve canister unit to see some of the motions now capable with a swivel connector. Please keep in mind that the wand to power nozzle connections bulk is due to the following:
1. Quick disconnect foot pedal system
2. Streamlined system of no exposed wiring, all electrical is in the wands
3. Wand storage hook to connect wand to the rear of the canister for temporary parking or connection to the base of the suction unit for compact storage
4. Full maneuvering, rotating in either direction, swivel elbow that locks into parking position with a pedal release.

What the swivel elbow does different compared to my other power nozzles is allow the user to turn the nozzle in a different direction in an easier motion with smaller turning radius. In relocating the rotation point from the Eureka power nozzle above, it allows the hose to still turn sideways for easier under furniture cleaning but also starts the nozzle turning so the user doesn't have to fight a fixed wheel steering design as much. ***Photo 9 shows it best

***You could compare the situation to trying to steer a tractor trailer to make a turn (traditional power nozzle hookup) compared to a standard sedan completing a turn (swivel connection power nozzle). The sedan has a smaller turning radius. Or similarly imagine a walk behind lawn mower, if the companies added a swiveling handle where it connected to the mower, how that might make turning the fixed straight wheeled mower easier to steer for starting the next row or even just rotation along of the perimeter of your property easier!

I have no issues and find it very easy to rotate and steer the Simplicity power and Rainbow nozzle under my coffee table, chairs or under the bed as you can see from a few of the photos. Also yes, that is my Hoover Convertible Elite stored under the bed!!

I think if you've ever tried one of these types of wands, you might learn to like it. It may take a decent timed vacuuming session to fully experience and try all of the angles that this connection can do. Due to the flexibility it actually in some ways more durable compared to a fixed elbow where some users have broken them over the years trying to steer wrong. It also reduces the urge to want to pick up the nozzle and move it to another area as some users do.

Some power nozzles with this system that have it working well include: Kenmore Swivel steering nozzle-- first one was a red colored series that debuted about 4 years ago. Current model E2 Type 12 Rainbow, Riccar, Simplicity full sized power nozzles.

***Aerus Lux has had a rotating elbow on their TOL power nozzle for years, yet they are the only one I've been informed of to have the most durability issues.
Their's rotates sideways but doesn't offer the same swivel steer directions that the Rainbow and Riccar are able to do and be extremely successful at for user ease and durability!!

Thank you for reading, enjoy the photos and please comment! I apologize for the length of this post but it's detailed and at least has lots of photos!!
Rob

http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMIx_BMTcsE

 

[blknblu]

Durango159,


 


thank you for taking the time to do the writeup. It clarifies many points.


Here are some closeup pics I found of the Panasonic MC-PN250 multi-surface power nozzle discussed in the video.


 


This is identical to the Centec Response II CT23QD electric brush power nozzle


 

 

[durango159]

Thank You blknblu!

I actually have yet to try the newest Kenmore/ Panasonic MC250 nozzle also known as the CenTec CT23QD.

I do notice that unlike the Rainbow and the Riccar, the wire isn't fully integrated and hangs down. I imagine also as with many other Panasonic power nozzles that the release pedal is directly under the elbow. That's a feature that I believe on their other power nozzles inhibits the Panasonic style nozzles from staying flat to the floor when the wand is lowered to the floor. Previous Kenmore nozzles the power nozzle will lift off the floor once the wand is lowered to about 6" from the floor.

It's not on the CenTec website nor have I ever seen a Panasonic with the nozzle but Kenmore used to a red swivel power nozzle canister vacuum. I tried some years back in a store and really did find it nice to maneuver. I could definitely see where it take some getting used to cause it sort of had a mind of its own but still a nice head. The first model sporting the nozzle was branded an Intuition with the suction unit body style of the blue Intuition canister but the swivel power nozzle. That model was later discontinued and replaced by a Progressive suction unit body style with the newer style bulky hose handle and the swivel power nozzle. Here is a googled image of the Intuition branded machine.

 

[delaneymeegan]

 


 


Thanks for the explanation guys, and pictures.


 


If I understand this correctly, if I were using the Kenmore you've posted above Rob, and I were going to vacuum under a couch or low clearance piece of furniture, I would not be able to turn the wand 90 degrees AND keep it perpendicular to the pn?


 


In other words, If I were using an 70s-90s+ Eureka pn, a 70s or 80s Kenmore pn, a Hoover Quadraflex, even a metal body Electrolux from the 70s to 90s,  I can turn the wand 90 degree, then lay the wand flat on the floor and push the pn all the way under a couch and butt up to the wall behind.


 


One can't do that with this model above.  One could turn the wand, but it would make the pn twist.


 


And with the exception of the Electrolux listed above, all these pns, the wands lock in standing position.  So when you pick up the wands when it's in standing position, the pn stays parallel to the floor, even though it's up in the air. 


 


What happens with this Kenmore above?  Is there a standing position?  With all these pivot points, it looks like it just flops around.


 


And when would one use a pn by twisting in it in all these weird directions?  I see in your excellent demonstration Rob, how the wand goes from side to side, I just don't know when one would do that.  It's just like a vacuum with 4 pivoting wheels VS 2 straight wheels on the back and 1 or 2 pivoting wheels on the front.  Yeah, we can DO the former, but we lose control of the appliance with all pivoting wheels. 


 


 


 


This whole pivot thing seems like what was said earlier, like they've taken this too far.  Lord knows, in the history of vacuums, there have been all kinds of gimmicks and throw-away trends.  We can go back over the decades and probably count them up.


 


 

 

[durango159]

Sorry for the confusion!

Maybe my examples went too far.

None of the wheels pivot or swivel on any of the models that I've discussed. The only vacuum that I can think of right now with rotating wheels on the cleaner head would be Dirt Devil Swivel Glide uprights from the 1990's with rear swivel canisters.

All of the power nozzles that I mentioned via the Kenmore Swivel, Rainbow, and Riccar have an upright locking handle. All lock into a parallel to floor position that is very easy to carry around the house. The Riccar features large rear wheels and well positioned pedals which allow nozzle to tilt back and easily roll around the house. Most Kenmore nozzles, Eureka Rotomatic style and Hoover Futura style nozzles lack that ability.

Swivel motion:
The pictures that I showed are extreme because the hose had to lean up against the wall and so the handle turned further out. What the feature allows is for you to vacuum any way that you like!! It doesn't turn or behave awkwardly during use. But if you want to turn to a new path or new area of a room or around a wheel on a bedframe, then the swivel elbow helps you turn at a smaller turning radius.
If I had Vanna White around she would greatly demonstrate my example photos better!!

**** When I mentioned that it takes time to get used to, I mean in a way that it takes time to get used to learning new motions that you wouldn't have before with some other power nozzles.

Perpendicular:
For this test I took out the measuring tape:
The Riccar wand can go straight out without turning the wand at all to a distance of hose handle being 11" above the floor before a user would need to begin swiveling to maintain the brush roll/ floor contact. That distance is actually lower than on the blue Kenmore Intuition CrossOver power nozzle can achieve. As the wand is lowered more, the angle of the hose will turn more to maintain contact. You can still easily push the nozzle forward in a straight path, just your wand is going to slightly angle out.
***One thing with the Riccar and the Rainbow, the hose handle can completely lay on the floor and the brush roll will never lose contact. The Eureka World Vac nozzle that I have in the house the hose handle must be held at least 1.5"-2" above the floor to maintain contact. I believe on a CenTec CT14DX, that distance is around 3", but I don't own one to do an exact measure!

On the Riccar/ Simplicity power nozzle depending on the length of your telescopic wand the hose handle when resting on the floor fully turned is 12" - 16" off from dead center. So I guess it does add a little learning and new way to vacuum under furniture but it's still highly achievable. It's a great thing to know that no matter how low your hose goes or what angled your hand is at, the front agitator will never lift off the floor!!

Also, my picture in the above post of the vacuum under the bed was taken for demonstration and best camera view of a wand under furniture only. Personally, I never ever actually push a vacuum under a bed from front to back! I purposely vacuum under a bed from side to side so that I get brushed edge cleaning along the baseboard and it's a shorter distance.

Power nozzles below have foot release pedals behind elbow which inhibit hose handle to rest on the floor as the brush roll will lose contact. The wands on these all turn 90 degrees in the wand connection but hose handle itself has to be at least 2" above the floor. Full vacuum pictures include some examples of models that some of the plain power nozzle photos are found on.