Vacuflo Vs. Dirt Devil Central Vacs

[ocscott3085]

Hi Everyone,
So I'm looking at buying a new house and after speaking with several owners I've discovered that they use the Dirt Devil brand for central vacuums. Upon looking at Dirt Devil's website, I notice they seem to have some sort of partnership with Vacuflo. Vacuflo has an outstanding reputation for central vacuums. Is Dirt Devil's central vac just a rebadged Vacuflo? If so, I'm not so nervous. My parents have a MD Silentmaster which is what I wanted to put in my new house. If anyone has more info on Dirt Devil's units, please let me know. Happy Labor Day!

 

[singingrainbow]

I do believe that they are rebadged vacuflo central vacs but if I were you I would go for the MD. It uses a bagged system that protects the motor from premature wear due to the buildup of fine dust on the fan blades. Here is a link to an article that explains it in detail. This is just my opinion so if you really want a bagless unit I would go with the vacuflo but I would also read this article first, it is very informitive.
Hope this helps!
Scott

http://builtinvacuum.com/education/filtration.html

 

[vacu-finder]

Central Vacuums..........

Most central vacs are all the same. They are simply a can with a motor. It's just that simple and nothing more. Don't let any sales person tell you otherwise.

Now as far as bag versus bagless....use a unit with a bag it's not as messy later on dumping the crap. And true enough bagged units are easier on the motor.
Most central vacs can be coverted to bags simply by adding an adapter inside the tank.

 

[tolivac]

MD central bagged units-depends on the bag quality and how ful the bag was allowed to be.Remember a unit brought to the Vac shop out my way-the bag was packed with drywall and plaster dust-the thermal OL kept tripping even with a fresh bag.The filter was replaced,too.Turned out the motor and fans were caked with fine plaster dust-causing it to overheat.the motor had to be taken down and cleaned-fans washed.Put it back together-and was OK.Now if it had a TRUE bypass motor-the overheating would not be an issue.I think ALL central vacs should have real bypass motors-the motor is out of the dirtstream and cooled by its own fan.NOT air over as with the non-bypass system.Like the GE vac pictured above has a REAL bypass motor.the dirt doesn't go thru the motor.The MD is a nice vac-they just need to go to the full bypass motor system.

 

[vacu-finder]

I think a bypass motor looks like the one in the photo...

 

[luxflairguy]

Vacuflo versus Dirt Devil centrals

Vacuflo makes the DD central vacuums. Instead of the true "cyclonic" system used by Vacuflo for over 50 years ago, DD uses the Vacuflo "filtered cyclonic" style more or less like a shop vacuum. You have a large filter cartridge up in the machine that you take off and clean periodically. This principle works well and one of the advantages in homes were the garage might be cinderblock or below ground level is that they do not need to be exhausted.
While the MD Silentmaster machines are good, they are expensive! And to me they have two distinct drawbacks. First is the messy emptiying of the bag. You have to wrap the paper bag around the cloth bag and then push it down into the cloth bag. The lip around the bag will be covered in dirt and filth and is messy to take out and change. I prefer the ease of a Filtex to the MD. The other thing I don't like is that in order to get to the lid on the top to empty the bag you have to mount the unit low to the floor. It makes the space around the power unit unusable. I prefer the dirt can on the bottom style as it can be mounted higher up and you can use most of the space under the unit for storage.
Spend a little time on the ThinkVacuum website where they have many pages devoted to the yes and no's of all the various filtration and emptying styles.
Hope this helps! Greg

 

[centralvacs1928]

Greg is right, the Royal/Dirt Devil central vacuums are private labeled Vacuflo filtered cyclonic units. However, I MUCH prefer the Vacuflo "true cyclonic" units (which are dark blue in color and only available under the Vacuflo brand)...the cartridge filters on the FC units are difficult to completely clean, and the very fine dust that can (and does) get by the seals on the filter causes the motor to run louder and louder over time. I sold quite a few of the Vacuflo filtered cyclonic units due to their great performance specs and quicker installation (no outside exhaust needed) but have shied away due to the issues above, which I've seen time and again. Hayden central vacuums rely on the same principle and have the same issues. If you want a bagless central vacuum, the Vacuflo true cyclonic is worth the extra 15 minutes to chisel a hole in the wall (assuming you have brick, rather than siding) and vent it outside.

For a bagged central vacuum, the cleanest and easiest to empty are the ones with a "closed" bag...NuTone, Cyclovac, Drainvac, etc. However, these also lose their performance the most quickly, as the bag sits in a bucket with the inlet on top, and the suction coming from above. Meaning that only a small amount of the bag's surface area is exposed to airflow, the majority just glues itself to the sides of the bucket. The genius of the MD Silentmaster/Filtex/CVI design is that the bag is inside a cloth bag, suspended by the rim with the motor(s) below, so the entire surface area of the bag is exposed to airflow. You can tell a BIG difference as the bag fills; the open bag design keeps the air flowing longer. A little messier to empty, but nowhere near as bad as a bagless system, with or without a filter.

I really have to take issue with vacu-finder's comment that most central vacuums are the same, just a "can with a motor"...my experience having sold, serviced, installed and owned most every central vacuum system out there shows that to be completely untrue, for the reasons outlined above and many more.

Scott, I hope this helps. If you're looking for more information, you could check out my blog at http://jcvacs.blogspot.com or contact me by email, [email protected]

Best regards,

Owen Perkins

 

[luxflairguy]

At last!

Owen! I was waiting for your to chime in! Two minds think alike. Check out my "latest greatest find" in vintage for a super 60's GE central!

 

[ocscott3085]

Thank you for all of your replies. Apparently, if I have the central vacuum put in at the time of build, Ryan homes will ONLY install a Dirt Devil Central vacuum because they have some sort of agreement with the company. I am definitely getting one put in this new house because I've lived in my current house for a few years without one and am going nuts without it! I guess if the Dirt Devil goes bad in a few years I can always just change out the unit. I do agree that the Silentmaster is disgusting to empty. That was always my job...and still is every few months I get the call to "come by and empty the vacuum". There really is no easy way to empty the bag without getting some dirt on my hands and in the bottom of the tank. In fact,I remember using their Dyson or Miele to vacuum the inside of the Silentmaster because I would inevitably drop some dirt while removing the bag.

 

[centralvacs1928]

Scott, one final suggestion would be to say you're only interested in having the central vac roughed in so you can purchase the unit at a later date. Just tell them it's not in the budget. Then, buy whatever unit and toolset you like. Just make sure they do a complete piping installation (terminating to wherever you'd like the unit to hang) rather than "drops" that need to be connected later.

If you wanted to be a little more "ballsy" about it, you could make buying a house from Ryan Homes contingent on hiring your own (properly insured, etc.) contractor for the central vacuum. Same thing if you wanted to hire your own home theater contractor, or source the appliances yourself, etc. etc...It's a lot to put on the table, but I've been hired in the past because a buyer insisted on using me and my products rather than the builder's contractor.

-Owen

 

[luxlife]

Very good advice!! May I ask for some, please?

Owen, I hope it's appropriate for me to ask for you for a suggestion while on this thread.

My house is almost "roughed in". I've got the electricals squared away in the fuse panel, but the pipes were never installed. I've got a question for you:

You said: " If you want a bagless central vacuum, the Vacuflo true cyclonic is worth the extra 15 minutes to chisel a hole in the wall (assuming you have brick, rather than siding) and vent it outside."

What exactly is being vented outside? Is it just noise, or is there some blow-by dust from the machine as well? If the vented air is relatively clean, then I'll deal with the hassle of disposing of what's collected in a bagless central.

I love the whole bagless phenomenon because it's so liberating for anyone who's ever run out of bags in the middle of vacuuming. However, having a bagless machine of any kind is like having a baby with a very full diaper: someone's gotta empty the thing and disposal always becomes the same dirty deed. I've considered having one designated trash can for nothing other than bagless vac waste matter. I'd have to keep it out of the garage to avoid a dust problem. They make a device called a "Diaper Genie" for dirty diapers. I sure wish there was such a thing for emptying bagless vacuums! If I were to lean towards a bagged central unit, which one would you suggest? I know they all bags lose their suction (and I can deal), but I need options for bagged or bagless central units that will work for a 5000 s.f. home. I'm also planning on installing Hide-A-Hose, unless you think it's a bad idea.

 

[centralvacs1928]

Hi John,

If you are looking into Hide-A-Hose (very good if you have mostly hard floors, but be aware that on carpeting you're limited to a turbine power brush), you'll want a power unit with lots of waterlift. Lots of CFM will still benefit you, but not as much as waterlift in this situation.

With a true cyclonic central vacuum (like Vacuflo or its much-worse competitor, Vacu-Maid), the majority of what you pick up is collected in the bin, which you empty into a trash can. Easier if your system is in the garage, so you can walk right over to the big trash cans. About 2% of the dust you vacuum up goes out the exhaust, so it's not something you want going back into your basement or garage. Venting any central vacuum will also remove any odors and some of the noise, so it's usually a good idea even with a non-cyclonic system.

For a 5,000 square foot home, my recommendations would be:

Bagged system: SilentMaster S44 (or, if not using HAH, the SilentMaster S2 offers lower noise, higher CFM and longer-lasting motors)

Bagless system: Vacuflo 566Q for non-HAH, or Vacuflo MaxAir for HAH. Once again, the 566Q has a single, large, slower-running motor which will be quieter and last longer. The MaxAir has very, very impressive waterlift and airwatts, but the two small motors in series are noisier and will wear out faster. Vacuflo's lifetime warranty pretty much makes that a non-issue, though.

Hope this helps.

-Owen

 

[bimmer740]

I installed a VacuFlo 566Q in my house 5 years ago and it was worth every single penny I spent on it and then some!! It is very quiet, has wonderful suction, and even though I use it to dust and clean every thing in the house, I only have to empty it 2 to 3 times a year. As soon as the dirt container is more than half way full, I usually empty it out. Some of the biggest selling points for me when buying the VacuFlo was its ability to maintain its suction level, the external exhaust, and its low maintenance. When you empty the dirt container, simply vacuum off the metal screen inside the unit, mine has never really been that dirty, wipe the dust container out, and then re-attach it to the main unit.

I know that so many online sites and many central vacuum dealers promote the Hide-A-Hose or similar unit. Honestly the only one that I would install in my home is the "Doc It" hose system because its the only hose I've seen that can still carry 110 volts to use with an electric power nozzle.

If you have read the Contemporary forum for a while, then I hope you have seen the previous discussions we have had about central vacuum units. As far as my opinion goes, no matter what home I own it absolutely will be outfitted with a VacuFlo Central Vacuum. I also have Direct-Connect Super Valve Inlets that have 110 volts wired to each inlet which allows me to choose between a TurboCat or an electric power nozzle. No matter what brand you decide to install in your own home there are two recomendations that I can make to you: #1) buy the largest unit that you can afford for your home, something that is rated for more square footage than you have, #2) install electrified direct connect inlets! No matter what a dealer tells you, no matter how much more power your unit has vs. what you need, a turbo nozzle will never clean as well as a quality electric power nozzle! It will add to the expense of your installation but it too is worth its weight in gold. It will allow you to clean with the power nozzle of your choice while using a unit that has much more power than any portable vacuum will have. Our previous WebMaster Fred Nelson has a Silent Master which he has raved about over the years. I've never used one but he certainly knows what he is talking about and is a wealth of information. I know that he too would tell you but the most powerful unit that you can afford, even if it is rated for a home much larger than your own. I guarantee you wont regret it!

~Steven

 

[tolivac]

The motor picture is a form of bypass motor-note the vent holes on top of the motor housing and the separate fancase.These motors are now REQUIRED in many types of wet-dry vacuums and carpet extractor machines.Keeps water and moisture out of the motor.The GE central vacuum had a radial discharge on the fancase-even better.

 

[luxlife]

Thanks to both of you for more good advice. I'm fortunate in my house floorplan to have interior walls where I can strategically place the outlets. I liked the Doc-It because it's got an electric hose, but ohhh that cover and box setup is huge! I'll consider this if there's some way that I can install the Doc-It in my closets or out of the way rooms so I don't have to look at that ghastly cover that the hose retracts into. Beam has a new hose setup that retracts into a 13 foot hose. Any thoughts on that?

 

[centralvacs1928]

The Doc It and the Beam "hose within a hose" both scare me for different reasons.

Starting with Doc It, not only do you have a huge, ugly door (3x the size of a HAH door) on the wall, you've got a retractor mechanism of dubious reliability, and a 55-foot wire reinforced hose snaking around in a box inside your wall. Those heavy wire-reinforced hoses are bad enough for airflow in a 30-foot length...imagine how little cleaning power you'll have with nearly double that. The hose length is not adjustable, unlike Hide-A-Hose. If the technology (which has been passed around several times to different manufacturers) doesn't take off, you've got an "orphaned" system that nobody can get parts for, and that cannot easily be converted over. One of the things I like about HAH is the simplicity...retraction is done by suction, and the only "mechanism" in the valve is the hose locking lever, which is easily and cheaply replaced. Also with Doc It, you do not have the ability to add a hose sock, and the extension/retraction of the hose is slow...you have to stand there holding the button down on the hose handle. I'd much rather grab the 30-foot, 4-pound crushproof hose out of the closet, plug it in and go. I have installed quite a few HAH systems and they work very well, but it comes down to your preference...I love my traditional system, and Steven is right...Supervalves/Electravalves are a must if you've got lots of wall-to-wall carpet.

The Beam Easy Reach "hose within a hose" is a cool idea, and I always applaud innovation...however, you once again cannot use a hose sock, the outer hose is around 2" diameter and quite bulky to move around. The inner hose is a "stretch hose" which is even worse than a traditional wire-reinforced hose in terms of airflow. I think that, like the Doc It, despite being a nice idea, actually having to use the Easy Reach hose on a regular basis would change your opinion.

One of the wonderful things about being a vacuum collector/enthusiast is the ability to use all sorts of different machines to clean your home...you can overlook the flaws and enjoy the variety of cleaners because you don't depend on only one, day in, day out, for 15+ years. One of the things I always try to keep in mind is that unlike me, my customers cannot decide to use one toolkit one day, and another the next...they can't just pay dealer cost and get another power unit if they're not quite satisfied with the one they've got now. They really don't have the ability to easily change the elements of their system. So, new technology that I wouldn't mind buying and trying myself like the two above products, is usually not something I will recommend to a customer right away.

I sell a central vacuum system as a powerful, reliable, serious cleaning tool. Anything uproven and "gimmicky" runs the risk of leaving the customer feeling like they've wasted their money, and jeopardizes future business for me. Just my two cents.

 

[luxflairguy]

Central Vac Int'l

Owen! I see your company is a authorized dealer for CVI. Do you get much business from them? I have a dual motor 16 that I bought about 12 years ago and more or less don't use. While good, I found that in the California desert, the knob on the lid came unglued in the summer heat and the inlet neck also came loose. I stopped using it because of those problems. Comments... Greg

 

[centralvacs1928]

Greg,

I like the CVI units, though you're absolutely right...I wish they'd change the plastic.

I had one unit where the knob came unglued. I drilled through the center of the knob and the center of the lid, and put a screw in to hold it in place. Overall though, they've been holding up well...no problems with the units I've sold (besides that minor issue, and they would have replaced the whole lid free if I had asked), and even the 40+ year old units I see around here from time to time are usually competely intact.

The big thing about the CVI units is the bag design (Filtex-type cardboard rim, but set down a few inches so the dirt can go straight in instead of going through those three tight turns on any Filtex), and the external motors, which I really believe run cooler and last longer than the same motors mounted internally would. I have a CVS-16 (single motor) in my house that has had tons and tons of use and just keeps going. Old Filtex units offered the same advantages, but without the ability to mount the motors independently of the dirt canister.

Have you checked out the D & R units? Knockoffs of CVI, and I wonder if they haven't made their own improvements in the plastic. They combine three 7.2" motors in their largest unit...talk about CFM! They're also notable for manufacturing their own "Designalet" inlet valves, like the old CVI "Vaculet" inlets. Very, very high quality. They're in the LA area, and I believe they started making the units and inlets themselves after CVI moved from LA. www.drvacuumsystems.com.

P.S. I'll buy your CVS-16DP if you want, or I can get you a new dirt canister. Interested?

 

[floor-a-matic]

Which CV should I go for?

I'm having a difficult time deciding between:
Bagged:
XXX
NuTone
MD Silent Master

Aerus

Cyclonic:
Vacuflo MaxAir
Vacuflo True Cyclonic

If I do get a central vac, I'm getting Aerus attachment set (Classic style)