Panasonic/Sears canisters

[williamr1248]

I have been looking at the Panasonic canisters.
Does anyone have any experience with these machines?
I have heard from several vac collectors and several non vac collector owners that the Sears canisters have LOTS of electrical problems with the power nozzle and wand set up after after only about 2 years and the fix is very expensive.
I was wondering if the Panasonic canister suffered from the same issues?
The reports from owners are not too good even on the web site. Very mixed reviews about the reliability. Also I have read issues about the exhaust and not good hepa filtering with the Sears machines.
They look like interesting machines that come with regular size tools and a full set of tools. Just viewing the power nozzle , it looks a little on the flimsy but we are talking about a cheap, china, throw-a-way vacuum, not a Filter Queen ,Rainbow or Aerus level machine. I am looking at the bagged machines only.

 

[jade_angel]

My experience with them suggests they're quite good for what they are - you can find better vacuums, you can find cheaper vacuums, but they're better than anything else in their price range and cheaper than most others for the quality. Durability would be my major concern.

Also, in some of the Kenmore-branded ones, yeah, air does blow past the post-motor filter. Not a huge deal with good bags, though. I haven't seen that problem on the Panasonic-branded ones - I'll bet there are some build quality differences, though I've never had both side-by-side to confirm.

The PN itself is good but not great. Those are made by Centec, I think. The connections can be a little witchety after a while, however, and replacement hoses and wands are rather pricey. You might be able to use a third-party replacement nozzle - I don't know, never tried it.

Long story short, if you want durability, get a Miele, Simplicity/Riccar, Numatic, Sebo or one of the door-to-door machines. If you want good performance for the price and don't mind that you'll only get 4-5 years out of it (before the PN connections flake out and you're left with a suction-only machine), get a Panasonic.

 

[suckolux]

I have had a couple, lower line model and top of the line both. I don't think as good as they used to be, what is? But for the money, they clean well, the plastic feels flimsy on some parts, but none ever broke on me, I am gentle of course. There is about half the exhaust leaks out the cord hole and half through the hepa filter on my two.I still honestly enjoy using them more than my Miele, god I am going to be shot.

 

[williamr1248]

Panasonic/Sears canisters

David,
I feel the same way about the Miele. There were some things I liked about my Miele (like strong suction and quiet motor) but a lot more that really did not work for me. Mine had a very short power cord, short stiff hose, heavy wands and baby tools. I sold mine.
I went to several stores that carry Panasonic but no retailers carried the bagged machines. I did check out the Sears canisters and I agree with what you said. They seemed very flimsy construction and you are forced to return to Sears and pay to have them shipped to the service center after warranty.
The Sears was easy to push and pleasant quiet motor.
I do see there are several places were you can order the machine on line for $199.00 with shipment to the local stores with free shipping.
I am keeping in mind the price range we are talking about with this item.
No question it would not be in the quality range of the high end machines.
Just became interested because I never knew anyone who owned a Panasonic.

 

[suckolux]

Nail hit on the head!

 

[fan-of-fans]

Been using them for years.

The quality is as mentioned, not as good as it used to be. Compared to other plastic vacuums, they are better than most from big box store machines, IMO.

A lot of people complain about the electrical problems in hose/wands. I have never had a problem with them shorting out or anything like that on the ones I've had, and I still have a 1999 Whispertone that gets used pretty often. What I did have happen on one Whispertone was the tab that holds the receptacle in the hose handle broke, so the receptacle got pushed back. This caused the power nozzle to work intermittently. After I glued it back in place, it worked fine.

The new motors are a big problem from what I've heard. The older ones used two stage Lamb/Ametek. In the early/mid 1990s, lower end models went to single stage Lamb/Ametek. During the 2000s, cheaper models went to Panasonic and Sip Cinderson Ltd motors, which sometimes die after a short time. If you look at Panasonic brand vaccuums, they probably all use Panasonic motors.

I have the current TOL Progressive I bought used at Sears in 2012. It runs fine and is built okay. I would compare it to the late 1990s units other than the motor. But I did have a problem where the cable in the telescoping wand broke somewhere and only the vacuum motor would work. It was under warranty so I took it back to Sears and they replaced the wand for free. I am a little leery to adjust the wand now that this happened as I don't want it to break again.

 

[piano_god]

Just some slight input on the Miele discussion that's developed...

To summarize "Miele" with an S2 series machine is a little skewed. A Miele S2 is a machine that's built to a price, not a standard. As such, it has a ridiculously short cord and short hose, a smaller, less powerful 1200w Vortex motor with little sound insulation, as well as cheaper attachements (ie: synthetic bristles used on the dusting brush). The machine is also made on an automated assembly line in Bielefeld, Germany, which helps to cut further cost.

Other Miele's, like the former S4 and S5, and the current S6 and S8, are built to a standard and address the majority of the issues you've mentioned. The S2 isn't meant to compete with Miele's other lines; it's purpose is to compete with the "higher-end" big-box store varieties.


 


 


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As for the Kenmore machines, they're better left on the shelf. As Sears continues its downward spiral, their machines have continued to be cheapened out more and more. In Canada, where canister vacuums rule the landscape, the shear amount of wire harness and lower wand issues that burn out is appalling. In fact, I am surprised they haven't been recalled...


 


The melting end cap issue on the brush rolls continues, though the newest have been revised to prevent build-up of debris...

 

[vacuumman206]

I only like the designs of the mid-late 90's models, otherwise those rectangle-shaped bodies run into every wall, obstacle and piece of furniture they can to slow your cleaning down! I got one of those newer (bagged) progressives out of the trash and I find myself using it alot. One thing I definitely never liked about Kenmore/Panasonic canisters was the attachment door and it's attached molded plastic hinges with their tendancy to get stuck and break. And the older wands didn't keep their tightness for long, as already mentioned. Another nice but ill-designed feature on the newer ones is the thing to hang the nozzle on the underside of the machine. They should have made it a little higher so the nozzle sits flush with the machine, not to mention you have to tilt the machine back and get the nozzle at the right angle so the whole thing sits flat on the floor. Great idea but they didn't check their measurements. This 2009 progressive that I have has pretty good suction, and it's rather quiet too.

 

[tolivac]

I have seen many Kenmore/Panasonic canister vacuums in the former Vacuum Cleaner Hospital and the present Greenville Sew & Vac that had the burned wand,hose connectors for the powernozzles.Also the front wheel on these machines breaks thru the bottom canister pan.Result-the machine isn't worth repairing-goes to the dumpster.There are a few Sears machines that have been traded in towards Miele vacs at the Greenville Sew & Vac place.Mike uses them to show the shortcomings on these machines to prospects-most buy the Miele or even Sebo canister.Yes,the Sears/Panasonics are good for low cost-but in general last only a few years before the power nozzle coonections go or the front wheel breaks the canister pan.Usually from the machine being jerked hard or dropped.These don't roll as easily as the Miele or Sebo.And these vacuums don't have the air seals in their lids or other canister body parts as does the Mieles or Sebos-therefore moe air and dust leakage.

 

[williamr1248]

Panasonic/Sears canisters

I noticed a big difference between the customer satisfaction ratings for the Panasonic's and the Sears canisters. You would think they would be close as they look like the same machine with only slightly different features and color. The Panasonic's got much higher ratings.
I am trying to keep in mind that we are talking about a machine with cord rewind, hose handle off/on switch, power nozzle and full set of tools for under $200.00.
My expectations would be less than for a machine like the Miele that was way over $600.00 or my Aerus and Rainbow canisters.
I can sort of see customers abusing the machine and the bottom pan breaking.
I am sure the vac shop owners see it all over time.

 

[tolivac]

The bottom pan may be breaking becuase the Sears/Panasonic canisters don't roll as easily as the Mieles,Sebos and others-so the customer jerks the hose to get the canister to move-it jerks up and slams back into the floor breaking the pan where the single front wheel mounts.And with age on these-the front wheel doesn't roll smoothly and the swivel mount on the wheel doesn't move easily either.So the customer almost uses a car puller to get the tank to move.

 

[williamr1248]

Panasonic/ Sears Canisters

Rex,
That makes PERFECT sense.
I had the SAME experience when I bought that Hoover Anniversary Canister. It LOOKED somewhat like my Miele but it was without doubt the WORST piece of junk. You had to DRAG that machine across the floor and because the hose did not swivel easily and was so short and stiff, it would kink. It was terrible to use and I should have known because the owner reports were nothing short of dismal even on Hoover's own web site. Power nozzle was very, very cheap plastic, handle would not stay up and the other tools were just a joke. It was such poor workmanship , I was afraid I would break it just using it once in a while when club members visited.
It looked beautiful but that was the end of it. Very big disappointment for $399.00 and in use that was reflected in a lot of owners reports about use and reliability issues. Thanks for sharing the information.
The reports I read on the Panasonic canister were much better in that area and they seemed to LIKED the way the machine handled.
It may be very true that the newer models are not up to the older standards.

 

[fan-of-fans]

As I said I never had a problem with the connections burning out in the hose or wand. I am surprised it happens so often on these. Sure if you are constantly attaching/removing the hose from wand or wand from power nozzle without turning off the vacuum first, it will spark and could burn, but the instructions have warned about that for years.

I think more often the problem is the connectors get moved around and don't make good contact anymore. It isn't noticeable really unless you take the handle apart and then you see where the connector is loose. I suppose also if that connector moves around while vacuuming it could cause sparking and the plug to get burned out. The loose connections seem to happen more on the gas pump style handles than the older metal curved handles. Maybe they are designed differently.

 

[tolivac]

Burned connectors-Remember WE as vacuum collectors and more dedicated users will heed the makers instructions--BUT the AVERAGE user will not.The vacuums owners manual is left in the box-never to be seen by the eyes of man again.In looking at the wands,connectors of these Sears/Panasonic hoses they seem to fail not only by the user connecting and disconnecting with the power on-but the wear from pushing and pulling the wand and nozzle on the floor.Older ones didn't suffer from this as much.Mainly the newer ones built in the last several years or so.Never used a Hoover Anniversary machine-but thanks for the high sign on them-guess these will be showing up in vac places soon.Suppose disgruntled customers will trade them in for Mieles and other better vacuums.Think Hoover and Panasonic/Sears should submit their vacuums to the same torture tests Miele does to theirs-the machines that tug on hoses,stretch them,and pull and push the wands and tools.

 

[williamr1248]

Panasonic/Sears canisters

Rex,
Another machine that I had which got horrible reviews for service problems and waiting for parts was my Electrolux Oxygen 3. Unlike my Hoover Anniversary, I really liked the Electrolux Oxygen 3. It was very quiet and had large wheels and was very well balanced. The wands were easy to assemble and remove from the power nozzle. I had no problems with mine but a lot of customers seemed to have electrical problems with the wands and also problems with getting parts for the machine. I was warned to NEVER connect or disconnect the electric wands with the machine in operation.
I have read several reports from customers that the Panasonic service may leave a lot to be desired. I checked their web site and the closest service facility in Indiana is 77 miles away. NONE listed for Indianapolis.
Of course being a collector, I am trying to keep the price point of under $200.00 in mind and most people would just junk the machine and buy another vacuum.
It is amazing when we as collectors think about some of the older CHEAP machines like the Hoover Convertibles, Eureka uprights and canisters and GE's that took so much abuse by their owners and still worked for years and years.
I am amazed when you read the reviews by consumers talking about replacing their vacuums every 2-3 years and they seem to EXPECT them to only last a few years.
Thanks again for your input and points of view.

 

[tolivac]

Rob: Oh yes the "infamous" Electrolux-Eureka Oxygen vacuums-saw MANY of these as patients in the former Vacuum Cleaner Hospital and the present Greenville Sew&Vac.Problems-the wand power connectors,Circuit Boards in the canister-and two occasions of the motor actually "Spin-sploding" in the canister-fortunately no one was hurt-but scared the customer into buying another vacuum.These two machines were at the former Vacuum Cleaner Hospital.The motors were sent back to Electrolux-at least the peices in a plastic bag.Electrolux sent replacement motors.Same with wands.I AVIOD these machines like the plague-they get turned into the trade in piles-and often-since no one wants them -they get dumpstered working or not.It seems to be a good performing machine-but has reliability problems.The Electrolux Oxygens were traded in torward Mieles or Riccar.Bill of the former Vacuum Cleaner Hospital recommened to customers to return the vacuum to Lowes and get a refund-then buy a better machine from him or Geenville Sew&Vac.Both Mike and Bill got tired of working on these.

 

[williamr1248]

Panasonic/Sears canisters

Rex,
What was so sad to me was companies like Electrolux and Hoover had such wonderful products. I think a lot of people bought these Electrolux and Hoover products, thinking they were getting the same quality machines that their parents and grandparents had owned years ago.
I was quite shocked at the quality of the Ricarr/Simplicity uprights.
When the guy turned the Ricarr over and it still had the METAL bottom plate and Metal roller with replaceable brushes and the bottom plate had simple latches to release the bottom plate for a belt replacement along with the metal handle release I was impressed.
The Ricarrs/Simplicity were expensive but they have some lower tier models that are still made very well.

 

[tolivac]

Rob: That was a problem customers were being duped to think they were getting a "real" Electrolux like what their Mother or Grandmother had-but an imitation.And old Hoover products were very good-far better than the TRASH TTI is putting out now with the "Hoover" name on it-sad to see a fine make as Hoover and Electrolux-now Royal and Oreck going the "Dumpster" vac route under TTI.Yes,Riccar/Simplicity are top notch-esp for mid priced vacuums.When Bill at Vacuum Cleaner Hospital here he was the Riccar dealer-He died and the dealership went under.I was able to get several machines via his widow.She let me have them-Using one right now-a Riccar Radiance Premium.Have a Blue Brilliance and the Burgundy Radiance.And 1700,1800(think that what it is) canisters.Nice machines.They do have same features as vacuums costing much more.Also have Bills Pink Filter Queen he used as his bench vac.Serves as a memorial to him along with the Riccars.Mike at Greenville Sew&Vac is a Simplicity dealer.He has several models on display.He pushes the Mieles and Sebos more,though.

 

[williamr1248]

New Panasonic/implicity canister

Rex,
Thanks again. Over time I have learned to enjoy and value your posts on the forum. You always give a fair and interesting post with useful information.
Of course this Panasonic will not be a vac I really use. I am only using the Rainbow because of the allergies and dust but I like to look at many vacuums and see what they offer within their price class.

Here are some interesting facts I noticed in checking this Panasonic machine out:

(1) If you look under the Walmart and Home Depot web sites and read the reviews for this machine, it is getting almost 5 stars and owners seem to be very happy with the product and a lot to them are replacing their similar Sears canister with the same type machine.
(2) I was noticing the AGE range of most of the reviewers and they seemed to be older generation who just wanted a SIMPLE straight forward machine with full set of useable tools
(3) the ONE main complaint seems to be the electrical connections at the power nozzle.

Here is another interesting fact:

I have a very nice DELUXE HOOVER SPIRIT canister with the high end HOOVER Quadraflex agitator. It has the cord rewind, bag light, tool storage, chrome wands and lighted power nozzle. Quite a beautiful Hoover finished in brown/taupe finish.
I have the bill of sale from a furniture store and it was $239.95 in 1995 when I received it as a Christmas gift. It is one of my favorite machines except for the dust leakage.
TODAY I am ordering the Panasonic canister with about all the same features for $189.00. Of course I will assume the new Panasonic will not be as high a quality as the old 1989 Hoover but I will get MUCH better filtration and a larger bag and I am expecting a quieter product.

I always try to be careful and NOT insult any of the other brands of machines as many of our reader may be making their living selling that particular brand or style but when you look up some of the reviews of many of the newer machines I have bought they get dismal reports even on their own web sites.

I am a little concerned over the Panasonic service available but I had problems on getting service for several of my Anniversary Hoovers with both damaged machines and features that would not work from the start. At least in our area the nice vac shops are all about selling the new higher quality and cost machines like Miele, Ricarr/Simplicity, Sanitare and now Sebo vacuums.
That may of course be a regional thing.