Oh my days, never heard such rubbish

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I actually really welcome this change. Vacuum manufacturers have become lazy putting excessively powerful motors on their cleaners to compensate for poor design. The 2 best selling vacuums in the UK are Dyson and Numatic, both are 1200w. Miele's are rated at 1200w in other parts of the world and Sebo uprights are 1300w max. You don't need anything more than that.

The new legislation will force lazy manufacturers to undertake some proper R&D to make their machines more efficient.
 
It is not rubbish

50 years ago, 500 watts or so was considered powerful for a cylinder. As time progressed, wattage increased further, and whilst I always preferred Electrolux cylinder cleaners to Hoover, the latter did always have that little bit more suction power. Then in the 1970's Electrolux completely redesigned their motors, resulting in much more power, with a typical wattage being between only 650 and 750 watts.

But it wasn't just the motor. Cleaners were designed to maximize airflow, and in many cases the dirt was flung to the out edges of the dustbag so as to make good use of the natural cyclone effect, which is why so many cloth bags were round in shape.

And then we move to uprights. Sold principally as carpet-sweeping machines, the tools were only ever an add-on for light cleaning tasks. The low wattage motors -clean and dirty air- created plenty of suction to carry debris the minute distance from floor to bag. The addition of built-on tools resulted in motor wattages needing to be stepped up as there was not the room to make a physically bigger motor.

But then somewhere in the last 20 years it all went pitifully wrong. Someone must have decided that numbers sell and that it was cheaper to build a high wattage motor than it was to bother to make a cleaner which worked better. Thus, the wattages have gone up and up and up, and all this in a time when the push has been to drastically lower energy consumption across the country.

These high-wattage motors are not always producing useful suction power either. Think of it like this; if your beside light has a standard 60 watt bulb, you will get more light from it if the lampshade is white rather than black. The power used is the same, but what you get out of it is entirely restricted by the design. Add then to this, if you please, that no manufacturer has said as of yet exactly how many air-watts is needed for each type of cleaning task.

Turbo500 has nailed it in the last line of his reply.
 
Also, think back over history. How many of our parents, grandparents and even great grandparents had Hoover Juniors? Those were all 250 - 300w max and nobody ever complained about those not picking up.

I have a 1992 Panasonic MC-E44, rated at 700w. The hose suction is equal to my modern Sebo X1.1 and it actually has MORE suction power on the hose than my Mum's old 1800w Electrolux. Why? How? That's simple - it has an efficient motor and is well designed. Similar story with the Hoover Turbopower 2's, all rated between 800w and 1200w depending on the model, but those have very strong hose suction.

I am by no means a Dyson fan, but credit where credit is due, their research and development is second to none and they've successfully managed to find a good balance between strong suction power and motor power. The highest rated Dyson was 1400w. I recently used a newer Dyson with a 1050w digital motor and was blown away (no pun intended) by how strong the suction power was.
 
The one thing I notice is that the higher the wattage of the motor, the more heat that the vacuum cleaner puts out through the exhaust. Effectively, the Purepower I have acts as a very good fan heater. When the motor is running, I tried to remove the hose bayonet from the back of the bag casing where it enters the bag hole, and the amount of back pressure being created there made me think that the hose was obstructed, but it was clear. Hoover have increased the Purepower's motor wattage but the diameter of the hose is far too small to cope with it, and this puts the motor under load, even when the hose is not blocked. The Purepower was only designed to have something like a 1200W motor originally, and they have nearly doubled its power to 2100 Watts without modifying any of the ducting for the increased suction that results.
 
and they have nearly doubled its power to 2100 Watts

rather unnecessarilly too, as the original 1200w and 1400w Purepower's had more than enough suction power and to say that the motor wattage has almost doubled, the suction isn't THAT much greater in comparison.
 
This topic has been discussed before and though I do welcome it, I am going to reiterate what I have said in the past.

Larger appliances need to lower their usage of power. Washing machines, ovens and electric hobs that use 3000 or more watts need to be lowered. Even those expensive induction hobs that are claimed to save money have 2000 watts minimum. The average household will use far more electricity usage than running around a vacuum cleaner with high power in the day and it isn't as if as buyers or owners, we are limited to using a mains powered vacuum to pick up daily dust - enter the mechanical or cordless sweeper - so what if they don't deep clean? You don't always need to deep clean your home every day.. I suppose if you do, you'll get yourself a dirty fan upright that takes care of the carpets. Not exactly increasing your power usage there with 400 to 850 watts if using a certain clean fan upright...

Benny has a great point here regarding what has gone down in the past ("...But then somewhere in the last 20 years it all went pitifully wrong...")

What went wrong is the increasing advertising claim that the higher power a vacuum cleaner has, the better it cleans. Hoover are famous for doing this, as were its rivals, constantly putting out the claims and increasing wattage as time goes on.



[this post was last edited: 11/4/2013-08:44]
 
One of the things that really gives the lie to those marketing claims, are the power differences between Europe and the US or Canada. Am I seriously expected to believe that the 2600W Hoover sold in Italy has that much more suction than a 1200W Tristar or a 1000W Filter Queen?

Also, on the topic of hose sizes - I have to wonder why 1.25" became the standard size. On my Simplicity 6-series, for example, the hose is a lot bigger than that - at least 1.5, maybe 1.625. It narrows down for the attachments and suction feed to the brush roll, though. I'd like to see a machine with a larger-diameter hose and attachment connection that has an adapter for standard-sized attachments.
 
Ah but due to the voltage in Canada and the U.S, the models from Miele etc worldwide are exactly the same in terms of the motor. So, where our 2100 watt SEBO D2 appears to be "high" the U.S get the same model with a 1250 watt motor.

Also for hoses...

Feet to metres for UK/Europe...

That equates to 3.8 metres in European/UK market speak. The SEBO X series has a 3 metre hose as standard (9ft 10), Miele's S7 has a 3.8 metre stretch hose on board (12ft). The basic Vax Mach Air (equivalent to the design of Hoover's Windtunnel Air but with a standard short hose measures 1.1metres/ 3ft.7 which is near useless).

I think the main reason that hoses don't get any longer is the simple fact that they would add more weight to the upright design. An upright isn't a "vacuum cleaner station or trolley" where everything that was ever made to be added onto a vacuum cleaner should be stored like a trolley, though I can see how some owners might want it that way.

Sadly we can't have everything that as owners, we want with only a few exceptions. The fact that so many brands now offer universal tools right across their ranges means for the most part you can use old tools on same family line models, but then you're compromised to stay with that brand you've always had UNLESS the model you have has the older 32mm sizing, in which you can access other tools that will extend the versatility of your old vacuum from OTHER brands.

As buyers though, brands are slow on the uptake to release information on their tube/hose/tool sizing for fear of buyers running to other brands or mis matching on tools. Sadly the Internet has opened up this arena that was once kept hush or back by the dealers and companies.

Numatic Henry owners for example often end up buying main size "other brand" or universal air turbo brushes that are cheaper than the ones Numatic actually sell. Numatic's turbo brushes are very good, though from Wessel Werk originally and has been tapered to fit with 32mm sizing. However there are other Wessel Werk turbo brushes on the market that buyers can optionally consider.

Tool/hose/tube bore sizes have always been different - some brands claim that a wider bore gives better air flow and less clogging, others offer similar sizing (such as Miele and Bosch who offer same 35mm sizing) whereas the 32mm is a sizing that seems to be made by Vax (TTi), Electrolux, Hoover and major brands, even though some models sadly have the "exclusivity" of unique parts with a bigger size bore/diameter making it useless should you change down to another model from the same brand in years/months to come.
 
It's like with Hoover Cylinders - compared to most Cylinder Vacuums where the floor tool fits OVER the extension tube, Hoover Cylinder floor tools slot INTO, not ON TO the tube which means should you want any extra floor tools, such as a Hard Floor tool or Turbo Brush, you have to fork out for Hoover Genuine ones not cheaper Versions from Qualtex for example.
 
I know Qualtex produce copy tools Vintagerepairer but they don't make copy tools that fit the Jazz, Dust Manager Cylinder or any other Cylinder by Hoover that uses the set up of extension tube & floor tool design.
 
Well most Cylinder Vacuums have the floor tool fit on to the outside of the tube whereas Hoover Cylinders have the floor tool going in to the tube.
 
Hello. Yes I see that, but these tools are available too, to push inside a 32mm tube (Goblin) and 35mm (Hitachi). I am wondering if these cleaners you refer to use another size altogether?
 
Tool or tube.

No, not 32mm tool, a tool designed to go inside of the 32mm opening of the tube.

The original Hoover pip-fitting tools fitted inside the tube, into the 32mm opening. Goblin took up the same design in the 1980's. The only difference was that the Goblin did not have a pip, it was a push-fit design which was back-to-front when compared to the likes of Electrolux. But both Hoover and Goblin fitted the same way and indeed I often sold the Hoover patten tools for use on Goblin cleaners.

Hitachi took the exact same route, but in this instance the tool fitted into a tube with a diameter of 35mm, just like the Panasonic upright cleaners did. You may be able to tell from these pictures. All these floor tools fit into the tube, rather than the tube fitting into the tool.

First, Goblin, to fit INSIDE the 32mm end of a tube.

vintagerepairer++11-4-2013-14-43-13.jpg
 

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