Is it worth it to fix this Hoover TurboPower?

[wyaple]

I was given a nearly completley trashed Hoover Turbopower 5000 canister (S3612) vacuum from ny neighbors that were moving to Texas from Ohio. I couldn't believe the awful shape it was in and the primary user of it had it in regular use. The really weird thing was that it has no bad smell at all when I received it.

Here's what it needs, some of which, labor-wise, I've already completed.

1) 2 sets of front PN wheels and axles
2) 1 rear PN wheel
3) Dirt Searcher 15W light bulb
4) Clear Tool Lid (very easy to break)
5) PN Belt
6) New filters (exhuast and secondary)
7) HEPA bag (duh!)

All of these goodies add up to about $60.

The bearings in both motors sounded totally hopeless (like a coffee grinder), but since I acquired this thing for free I figured I'd see if I could bring them back to life. Welp, after using WD40 to clean out the grime and chunks, both the canister and PN motors went from defintely trash to keep working on them and see what happens.

Along with the motor bearings, the brusholl bearings were just as bad, so after cleaning I apllied wheel bearing grease to all three items and viola', not too awful any more. Not great, but at least no more coffee grinding on spin-up and spin-down.

Both motors had the most sparks I had ever seen flying everywhere (several inches, geez), and I'm amazed nothing caught fire! A good, careful polish with a commutator stick and all is well, really well. Only itty-bitty sparking now, like one would expect out of most motors of this type.

So yesterday, I go hunting for the most difficult parts to get, the PN wheels. The larger rear wheel isn't too bad to find, but I'm having great difficulty locating the front wheels with their little metal shafts (32761001 & 31522004). Without all three wheels making the PN a completed 4 wheel item, I don't think it would be very good on carpet. How does someone use a PN with 3 out of 4 wheels missing?

Bill

 

[human]

If it needs all that, maybe the better question is what all can you salvage from that wreck to use in fixing up another machine?

 

[hoovercelebrity]

Those tiny front PN wheels quite frequently went missing. I think they were mostly there in case you wanted to take the PN onto a bare floor. Many PNs don't have front wheels, so I think you could probably get away with skipping those for now, holding out until you find a parts donor, or the actual parts online.

 

[jodan3399]

You could look for another to serve as a donor, or use that one as a donor.

But then personally I've fixed up quite a few things that may have been considered not "worth it".

If you like it a lot, and will enjoy fixing it up and using it, consider it worth it in terms of enjoyment and the satisfaction of doing it...not in terms of the cost.

 

[wyaple]

I went ahead and ordered all the parts

Probably spent too much - $73...ouch! At the last minute, I thought I could obtain everything from 1 or 2 suppliers, but they ballooned up to 4, hence the price increase due to everyone's shipping.

Based on my CFM and power draw measurements, I'll have this vac right back up to 100%, minus the cosmetic issues I'll have to work on and the not so quiet bearings. I'll post some pics in a few weeks when I get all the parts in and a good polish on the plastic.

Bill

 

[durango159]

Sorry I found this post so late!!!

Your Hoover Turbo Power 5000 is essentially a Hoover PowerMax Deluxe with a 2 year warranty.

I have owned many along with refurbing and reselling some. I only come across one with a siezed brush roll motor. I was able to get the motor moving again but it needed carbon brushes. I ended up taking it to an electric motor repair center. They fitted carbon brushes for it, sanded and clean the commutator and overall checked, cleaned and fixed up the entire power head motor.

The main suction motor is fairly easy to work with. Hardest bearing to get to is the one below the armature on the other side of the fan.

Some times in those power nozzle housings the front wheel bearing slot gets worn and won't actually hold the wheel axle in place anymore. You'll see what happens when installing. It's possible you may want/ need to add a drop of super glue or hot gun glue to either end of the axle to get it to stay in place in the housing.

However without the front wheels, you'll find these power nozzles still work very well at cleaning and manuevering on the rug.

The rear wheel and axle is a single piece. Usually around $5/10 for a single. If you're replacing one, the other probably should get replaced too. It's probably wearing to the point where the wheel will start to slide off the axle and then jam up. You then have to push it back on. But in use you'll findout.

Belts for these are part 38528-011. Generally $1.99 for a 2 pack. Can be found at Ace Hardware, True Value Hardware, Boscovs, vacuum stores, online.

HEPA bags from Hoover are around $10 for a 2 pack. I buy Envirocare HEPA similar bags. They are cloth and they are fabulous!! $3.03 for a 3 pack!! See link below.

When you service and clean your unit. Apply some metal like tape to cover up unneeded vent holes in front of the hinges on your bag door. So there are presently 2 holes on either side, the small strips of solid metal tape will make it even with the rest of the bag door housing along the front and you'll have far greater airflow.

I'm only on this site about once a week. But feel free to hit me up for info and help. I love Hoover PowerMax/ Windtunnel style canisters!!

Here are some of the ones that I own and my family owns!

 

[wyaple]

Durango159

I thought I heard airflow escaping from the main bag compartment but I couldn't believe it when I spied those two "un-needed" vent holes you pointed out. I immediately blocked those off and measured a 10 CFM boost in airflow at the hose end! I also noticed that the bag check indicator now goes fully red instead of about 75%. Yay, full power restored!

BTW, I nabbed the 2-pack of the genuine Hoover HEPA Type S bags ($6.95) and can't wait to try them out as they seem very high quality. For all my vacs, I have gone to HQ HEPA cloth and eliminated all paper.

Question: what were the years the S3612 was manufactured? Around 2006-ish?

Bill

 

[durango159]

Hi Bill!!

The Hoover Turbo Power 5000 S3612 would have been on the market somewhere around 2001-2004 respectively. The first 4 numbers on the serial number on the bottom of your machine will tell you the exact. The format is: MMYY00000000.

The bag indicator lights were never accurate on these. Technically when pressure pulls the indicator to 100% red the bag is due to be changed. I've noticed on the Windtunnel canisters that with a new bag installed some of them will pull the indicator down to about 1/3. But on yours it shouldn't be pulling down that far especially with a new bag. So I would check the following:
-- All wands- no obstruction
-- Hose end that goes into the machine-- tight seal and look into hose to see if the curved elbow looks clean
-- Premotor filter-- should be bone white
-- Micro filter-- red tab under the dusting brush. This should be bone white but they get dirty from carbon brushes quick.
-- gasket all around the machine. Check that all rubber tabs for the suction unit are inside the bag compartment
--Bag installation-- arrows pointing towards the handle on the unit, cardboard all of the way forward. Check that black plastic bag holder is properly seated. Fully open and try to shape bag but push the back of down below the ridge prior to closing.
**** It's no offense to you at all but I went detailed on the bag because I've seen and heard countless stories of consumers installing the bags improperly on these. Unlike the Hoover Dimension 1000 and some other manufacturers the bag door will pretty much close no matter whether the bag is installed properly or not.

 

[durango159]

Here's some extra info on the TurboPower canisters by Hoover.

A little background:

I don't know why Hoover had to label that unit the Turbo Power 5000.

Reason being about 2 years prior there was a previous edition Turbo Power 5000, model number S3577. The S3612 that you have is modeled like a PowerMax Deluxe S3607, S3608, S3601... and many others it has:
covered tool storage
PowerMax style low profile nozzle
Gas pump handle with no controls
Micro Filter
25' cord rewind

The S3577 Turbo Power 5000 was based off a Futura Supreme S3569, S3567 similar. Then a revised change to the 5000 emerged with a gas pump hose and it modeled a PowerMax Supreme S3530. This version featured:
Non covered tool storage
Higher platformed headlight Futura style power head
25' cord rewind
same tool set as above
**1st generation
----basic hose with suction valve release in hose
----9.8 Amp motor
----Hoover 11.0 Cleaning Effectiveness Per Amp Rating System
----later models changed the power nozzle label to state: "Hoover TurboPower"

**2nd generation
----gas pump handle, suction valve release in chrome wands
----9.3 Amp motor

Another cool one:
Hoover Turbo Power 6000 S3613
This was on the market during the same period as the Turbo Power 5000 S3577.
It was modeled essentially the same as my Hoover PowerMax S3603-040 which was manufactured October 1994.
Same features as your 5000
but:
9.8 Amp motor
Brush roll on/off switch
3 prong cord plugging into hose
--headlight stays on while even if brush roll motor is turned off
Hoover 12.0 Cleaning Effectiveness Per Amp Rating


The Windtunnel TurboPowers were similar to the 6000.
Amazingly I found the Hoover links to these products still even though they are long discontinued.

TurboPower 7000 S3646 Windtunnel had the suction unit, hose and wands of the TurboPower 6000,but here were changes:
----12 Amp motor
----15" Windtunnel power nozzle
S3646-900 included optional turbine hand tool with Windtunnel technology
http://hoover.com/products/details/s3646---/windtunnel/


TurboPower 7500 S3649 Windtunnel added:
-----Variable speed suction motor
-----Full on/off control to the handle
-----Turbo tool was stored onboard in the tool lid.
http://hoover.com/products/details/s3649---/turbopower-windtunnel-canister/



Photo 1: Hoover Pamphlet of 5000 and 6000

Photo 2: Best image I could google of what your S3612 is!

Photo 3: Best larger version I could google of S3577

 

[wyaple]

Durango159,

If you remove all bags and filters, then turn the machine on, then cover the air hole, a properly working machine with a bag check indcator shiould go fully red.

At least every machine I have and/or tested does. Provided it is working properly and the bag check indicator is clean, sealed properly and lubricated.

Before I hooked up my airflow guages, I checked the 5000 when I first received it (terrible condition) and the bag check indicator went to about 50%, so I knew there was hope of restoring it.

Next, I polished the commutator, cleaned/re-lubed the bearings, and cleaned/lubricated the bag check indicator itself. It went to about 75% red. Yay! Improvement. All this was done without any filters/bag, so I knew something was amiss.

I drug out my Baird meter and my GM8901 anemometer and confirmed the airflow was a bit too low, not too bad, but too low. I heard air escaping from the bag compartment but I didn't have time to test to see what was causing that. Then your post showed me the light of the "intentional" design flaw! Thanks!

After sealing those 2 pesky holes in the bag compartment, the indicator goes easily 100% red when using a hand to block the air hole. I then re-measured and I had proper airflow for this 5000. I get about 95 CFM from the bag compartment.

I haven't set up my water lift gauge yet, but I plan to publish results for my 2 newest restore jobs soon. The TurboPower 5000 and a 2013 Windtunnel 2 Pet bagless machine will get tested thoroughly.

BTW, after I received and installed all new OEM filters and bag, the tests were the same, no additional airflow loss and a bag check indicator that slams to 100%.

If you don't ming me asking, what happens to your Hoovers if you remove all filter/bags and cover the air hole with your hand? How far does the guage move?

Bill

 

[durango159]

OH!!!! I misinterpreted what you posted!!

I thought you were referencing that your machine went fully red with no resistance!!!


I didn't realize you were discussing having your hand over the hose end!! Yes all of my machines go 100% red when I cover the hose end.


My original post was referring to the fact that some of Hoover's bag indicators aren't always the most accurate as on some machines I've had the indicator go about 40% red with a brand new bag and filter installed while just using the power nozzle.

Glad you got it working right! I'll be glad to see photos of it. The fonts used on those are gorgeous to look at plus I just love looking at a Hoover canister anyays! LOL

 

[wyaple]

Before and After Pics

Aside from the obvious frayed hose wire I'll fix later and a motor bearing that is a bit tool loud, here's the best I'm going to do with this machine.

Bill

 

[durango159]

Lots of miles on that one!!

Well that machine definitely got heavily used by previous owner!! I bet those agitator brushes are actually started to sound loud, looks like they're starting to get short. I notice my Hoover power heads run louder when the brush is worn!

I posted in your other thread, Chris's number in New York for motor bearing repair parts. He can get you parts you need. Did you try greasing the bearings at all? Just curious?

Also in all my years us using that series, that is the first time I've ever seen the wire frayed the way it is! I'd be willing to bet the old owner had the hose connected the wrong direction with it pointing towards the rear of the machine. The hose should be positioned face the front of the machine towards the handle. I probably didn't have to tell you that though!! LOL

I don't know if that hose end comes off or not repair that??? I know the locking ring for the connection to the canister is repairable and the gas pump end is removable but where your probably is, I'm actually not sure??? I do know that there are usually a bunch of these hoses on eBay.

Another too with this issue, you can upgrade this hose to one with a bare floor on/off switch hose from eBay or another vac shop-- Chris would have some cheap used ones too! It will still have 2 prongs going into the suction unit but the gas pump end will have 3 prong compatible. Don't worry about that it just means that since your power nozzle is only wired to 2 prongs that your headlight won't stay on in the bare floor mode but you would be able turn the entire power nozzle off without unplugging anything!!

To stay compatible you can only get a hose with the brush roll on/off switch or no controls like your current. Don't get one with variable speed selection or full machine on/off, those would not be compatible!!

Overall, you did a terrific job cleaning up that unit and getting rid of the scratches and abuse marks!!

 

[wyaple]

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Yes, I have greased everything possible, even more than once. But, I think you may have sparked an idea I should look into. It appears that the motor may be rattling in its mounts causing the canister to be much louder than normal. I had a chance to hear one that was much quieter recently, so I may play around with how it is seated in the main body. Other than that, I am pleased with its overall performance. The power nozzle runs fairly smoothly and is moderately pleasant to listen to. Thanks for your help!

Bill

 

[durango159]

Glad I could help!

For whatever reason on a couple of machines I have had issues where the motor turns inside the suction unit. While this hasn't affected the sound of the motor, it can tangle wires. To fix the issue I put some weather stripping on the plastic supports in the base of the suction unit on those machines. This is all assuming that with the gaskets properly in place and the motor mount properly screwed down the motor was still moving!

The motor itself you want the black rubber gasket centered in its proper grooves. The 2 screws that hold the main motor together can only be removed by taking off the carbon brushes.

Oh another thing, I"m careful of is reseating the motor brushes!! You'd think they would just go right in and screw in place and sound fine, right!! Well they don't in my experiences!! Make sure the springs are great on both brushes and there is atleast 1/2" of brush extending back down into the cartridge holder. Resistance to push the carbon brush up and down should be very easy!
I try to hold the bolt by the fan still while gently inserting the brush. While holding the brush down all the way with your hand, you can rotate the motor fan and listen that it sounds smooth!!! Do that for both brushes!! Sometimes it's easier to remove both brushes and insert one at time listening to each. They shouldn't screech or rattle or anything as the smoothly go over the copper commutator!!

I can email you a video that I made in 2013 of another Hoover vacuum. The file is too large to post to this site. Let me know I can send you an email, which I could send over an actual video or a link to my Youtube channel with many vacuum videos.