Hoover Convertible Lower Motor Bearing Experts

[wyaple]

Please chime in on this...

A few weeks ago, I nabbed a U4007 at a thrift shop and proceeded to restore it as best as possible. I did discover that the upper motor bearing was significantly worn so with the help of Andy R. (vacuumlad1650), I replaced that part. I also discovered that the lower bearing was partially stuck. It turned poorly, so I proceeded to do what I think most experts here would say was EXACTLY the wrong thing to do.

I used the blue can of 3-in-one oil to soak both the top and bottom of the lower motor bearing.

BEFORE all you experts scream at me, let me tell you the issue I was facing. When I closely examined the lower bearing, I was going to attempt to squeeze in some Mobil EMB (electric motor bearing) grease, which is specifically rated for high speed electric motor shafts. BUT, I was shocked that I found FELT WASHERS perfectly fitted to both the top and bottom of the lower bearing. I used a toothpick to partially ease out a piece of the material just to verify I wasn't losing my mind. Welp, my U4007 has felt washers in fairly good condition on the top and bottom of the bearing, so without completely removing them, there is no way to force in any thicker grease as I've read your supposed to do.

After completely freeing up the lower bearing with blue can 3-in-one, I cautiously ran the machine and it sounds....PERFECT! Spin up and spin down sound as good if not better than any YouTube video I have ever seen and I've searched through all the convertible videos I can find.

Now, I'm not saying I've done the "right" thing, but I have two lingering questions:

1) Has anyone ever seen felt washers on the lower bearing and
2) how often should I re-lubricate this lower bearing with 3-in-one oil?

My long term plan is to use this machine about 30 minutes a month or around 6 hours per year. Light but consistent usage I suppose.

Bill

 

[vacuumlad1650]

Hi Bill
I'll have a look...I might have a full replacement lower bearing I could send you. I picked up a few boxes of Hoover parts today from an older shop. Let me take a look.
Andy

 

[wyaple]

Andy,

Thanks for checking into this for me...

Bill

 

[bnsd60m9200]

that lower bearing requires GREASE, NOT OIL! spray the crap out of the bearing with break cleaner and use a small tip grease gun from an auto parts store and regrease that lower bearing! andy is obsessed with replacig bearings and its TOTALLY unnecessary! on top of that, he gave you bad servicing advice, and now you ruined a perfectly good lower bearing! contact me offlist at [email protected] and ill go over with you how to PROPERLY service a convertible without wasting money on unnessary parts and bad advice.

 

[wyaple]

Will,

Are you sure you read my entire first post? Andy never told me to oil the bearing, I had no choice but to do so because of the top and bottom felt washers.

So far, the oiling hasn't had any detrimental affect. Later on it may, but in order to completely loosen up a partially stuck lower bearing, I had to soak the washers in oil. Andy is searching for another bearing plate for me because of the felt washers blocking the spots where grease could be squeezed in.

Bill

 

[vacuumlad1650]

Will

I NEVER told Bill to Oil his lower bearing. I explained how the upper bearing can be oiled when it is not worn. His did show some wear, so when I send him some Belts I sent him an upper bearing as well. I told him to use a syringe with some high quality grease and pack his lower bearing. He started this thread because he noticed the felt pads around his lower bearing. That is something I have never seen. I told him if needed he can send it here and I will re-pack it with my Hoover Grease Gun.
And I do Not have an obsession with replacing bearings, only worn sleeve bearings. Sleeve bearings wear out when they are not properly oiled. Ball bearings do not wear out, even when you do not properly grease them. I know better than to put oil in one, and made sure to tell Bill not to do that.
Best Regards
Andy

 

[gottahaveahoove]

Well, that's good.

It is essential to lubricate these things correctly.  I have watched a few people do it.  I also have a step by step photo instruction from Tom A, in North Canton.


  Andy,  I'm glad your keyboard is now working properly.  You may have put a drop or two of grease on the keys......I know you'd never spell Hoover incorrectly.  Or, is there a new brand outthere."Hoovrah"?  Where is that manufactured?  Knowing how to spell and not would just be showing one's ignorance.  I know you'd never do that.   We've ALL spelled words  incorrectly.  I usually do it when one of my cats is   on my lap. Good job with that oil.

 

[wyaple]

So John,

Since I believe you have a "Hoovrah" or two in your collection, can you answer me question #1 below?

1) Has anyone ever seen felt washers on the lower bearing

And if you wouldn't mind, please post (or refer me to a link) on proper lower bearing greasing pictography. I have watched plenty of YouTube videos using the (unobtainable?) Hoover grease gun.

I am thinking of using a 1 ml syringe filled with Mobil EMB grease and "winging it" just to see (and measure) the results.

Bill

 

[gottahaveahoove]

Bill, thank you for your interest.

Let me, hopefully, shed some light on this.


  First:  No.. I do not own one of these "Hoovrah" cleaners.Either it is a foreign brand about which I know nothing,  OR it's just , well,  some silly little joke that went South.


  It's terrible when one tries so hard to be funny, and, yet, misses the mark completely.


  Now,  I DO own several,  well 450+ Hoover products.As you know, HooVER began in your state of Ohio..... read up and you'll learn so much.


 


  To answer the technical questions,  no,  I've never seen felt washers in a bottom bearing.


AS far as lubricant, the TOP bearing NEVER gets lubricated.  It is stated in the manual, "it is never to be lubricated as it has a lifetime lubrication. There are some people who always simply didscard that top bearing, and replaces them, when most times, that really isn't necessary at all.  But, still, some do it, and otrther, young impressionable people follow them. I guess that statement about 'imitation....."  applies.


 The BOTTOM bearing DOES require servicing,  and requires grease. You can put it in a plastic syringe. Contrary to popular belief,  you do NOT need a Hoover grease gun... It isn't really a grease gun,  more like a "TIP".


You'll find little felt washers, however, in the brushroll.  They can be removed, cleaned, or, replaced.  The brushroll, too, requires grease.  There are several videos, as well as photos of all of this.


  I sure hope this helped you.


 Happy HOOVERING"


 John


 

 

[wyaple]

John,

Sorry to offend you with the "Hoovrah" name as you actually mentioned it first and I got quite a kick out of it.

I have already rebuilt the brush roll completely with great success. Based on your felt washer knowledge, I will remove them and use a syringe to apply some Mobil EMB grease to the lower bearing.

I wonder if after replacing my top bearing (it appeared warped and squeaked somewhat) and greasing the lower one, I will be able to see more than 100 CFM from the nozzle? I have already noticed a current usage drop from 4.5A to 4.3A (under load) after replacing the worn top bearing.

And I am well aware of Hoover's history as I also have read and quite thoroughly enjoyed Carroll's Gantz's book: The Vacuum Cleaner A History.

Bill

 

[bikerray]

There should be felt washers in the lower bearing, they are there to seal out dirt. You should have a small collar that goes between the bearing and the fan spacers and rides inside the felt washer.

I have a brand new lower bearing (mounted in a bearing plate) for a Hoover 700 and it has felt washers in it.

If it helps, I clean out the bearing with lighter fluid, make sure it's dry and then repack the bearing with grease.

 

[wyaple]

Bikerray,

Thanks! That's the verification I was looking for. You are the first one that can confirm the presence of felt washers (I already knew about the collar washer) in the lower bearing assembly. Now, my only concern is that I can remove/replace them after greasing the bearing without damaging them.

Bill

 

[kloveland]

Interesting..

Hmm. I was just reading this. I've never seen a felt washer when removing the fan on a convertible. I've always greased the bottom bearing like John suggested. There should be two metal spacers between the fan and the base on metal based convertibles. I just can't picture where the felt washer would be. I've taken so many of these apart. I feel like I could take a convertible with one handed tied behind my back. 


 


Attached is a link to guide by Jeff Parker. This is the way I've always greased mine. 


 



http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?1099

 

[kloveland]

Just thought I would add..

There are many schematics out there. Just google your model number. I found this one very easily. I still fail to see any mention of a felt washer on the lower bearing of a U4007. I've never seen one. Sorry, I don't mean to make a federal case out of this. I'm just stumped that's all. 


 


I attached a link to another nice restoration. 



http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?17780

 

[vacuumlad1650]

Kenny
It is possible the felt washer would be a part of the complete bearing assembly. I did send him a service manual (I'll post that here tonight) and it has no mention of the spacer.
Andy

 

[kloveland]

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;">It's possible. But I did ask two Hoover collectors and they said the same thing I did. The convertible is different from the 64, 700. I'm not an expert by any means. Think about this, the 65 (1957) is sixty years old, the same age as my mother. Chances are any convertible restoration/fix has been done before and there are some very nice tutorials on this site.  </span></p>[this post was last edited: 2/23/2017-13:48]

 

[wyaple]

Re-Greased The Original Lower Bearing

Using Mobil EMB grease (it's blue). The first two pics are the top and bottom with the mysterious felt washers teased out. Pic#3 is of the felt washers. They appear to be factory but this is my first Convertible, so I dunno. The last pics are the grease being applied and washers gently squeezed back in.

Bill

 

[vacuumlad1650]

Those look like the newer and older incarnations of the Brushroll Felt Washers. i wonder if some "Handy Harold" Husband attempted to service the vacuum, and he wedged those in there?
Just a thought...


Andy

 

[kloveland]

<p class="MsoNormal">Personally, I've never had to take the bearing apart. I've always greased them using the above method that I posted. And I've greased the lower bearing on thirty plus convertibles over the last seven years. And they all sounded much better after greasing them. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“Welp, my U4007 has felt washers in fairly good condition on the top and bottom of the bearing, so without completely removing them, there is no way to force in any thicker grease as I've read your supposed to do.”</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
 


<p class="MsoNormal">Then I’m stumped, because the grease must be getting into the bearing somehow. I’ll have to pull out my U4007 and look at it. </p>