HELP! New member, sick e'lux 1205.

[jsfulsam]

So I recently got myself a decent-looking electrolux 1205 for use around the house. It replaced a real lemon of a modern vacuum, and has been one of the best vacuums I've ever used.

So, it saddens me to find out that it's starting to develop a problem with the motor. Here are the symptoms I'm noticing. These slowly start to appear after the machine runs for a little bit.

-Motor hum starts to get sharper and more pronounced.
-Rattling noise appears, and gets louder.
-Motor speed begins to drop

If I need to make any sort of video or audio recording to illustrate this, I will.

I'm not afraid to tear into the motor (Already had the vacuum apart once as a practice run) If anything, I'd like an expert's opinion on what could be wrong with the unit. I'm not sure if it's a lubrication issue, or if the brushes are improperly contacting the commutator.

IF it's a lubrication issue, can lubrication with blue-can 3-in-one SAE-20 oil solve the problem, or will I have to look into bearing replacement?

On the other hand, if it's a brush/commutator issue, what typically goes wrong here? Will cleaning out the brush holders with alcohol do the trick? Also, how indispensable is a seating stone?

Attached a picture of the motor to illustrate the condition of it. Maybe an astute viewer can pick up something.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any advice you guys can give.

 

[real1shep]

OK...you need to take out the armature and thoroughly test it with a VOM...just Google how to test a small motor armature....you do 180 degrees opposed and then side by side...it's a process as outlined. You'll probably need a new set of brushes as well. You'll need to clean out the bearings...sintered bronze bushings if I remember correctly. I chase them out with carb cleaners until they run clean and let dry. I also examine the commutator for wear and any abnormalities. None of the commutator plates should be cracked or have chunks missing. It's ruined at that point and will excessively spark brushes even new. If the armature checks out and the commutator is sound, I polish the commutator with brown Scotch pads. The bearings need a small electric motor oil. This will be non-detergent 20wt. Yes, the blue & white can 20wt is a ideal oil...what I use. Be very liberal in its use and clean up the overflow with a Q-tip or better yet, foam pad tip....like they use in hospitals and available through Amazon from various vendors.


 


I also pull a draw knife through the space between the commutator plates, but this is advanced stuff and you need to know when to stop. As the commutator plates wear down, the 'valley' between the plates gets shallow...allowing electricity to 'short' between the the plates. I went too far once in the 'valleys' of  a GM starter and it sounded like I was trying to start an airplane. Didn't hurt anything, just made the starter LOUD. Armatures have a spec on how deep that 'valley' should be....hard to find though. Some people dress the brushes to try and match the commutator. I find this fruitless because most brush holders are not perfectly perpendicular to the plates...ergo, the sides wear different concave shapes on the brushes. Let them break in and then clean the commutator again....that works for me.


 


Can't tell anything from a pic like that...except the commutator plates look dirty. This requires work and dismantling/re-assembly....no shortcuts.


 


Kevin

[this post was last edited: 9/7/2016-05:26]

 

[fantomfan57]

1505 in my parts drawer..

I recently realized I had this vacuum as I had forgotten it. I also saw that I had partially dismantled the motor for who knows why.

I want to reassemble, but am confused by what I think are extra wires...

Does anyone have a wiring diagram for an Electrolux 1505 or 1205 for that matter?

 

[s31463221]

1505 motor

Garry,

I'm not entirely sure what you are seeing with multiple wires. To the best of my knowledge the motor that came in the Silverado was the same as what came in the Olympia One. They were single-speed motors with a dual stage fan system. It should have had only two power wires, unless the extra ones you're seeing are the wires that go to the carbon brush holders? Here's a link to an eBay listing that shows some up close photos of a genuine 1505 Elux motor...hopefully that helps some!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Electro...479052?hash=item2115d93c4c:g:lagAAOSwENxXlcIk

 

[real1shep]

You just need to always pay attention to all the wires when you take out the motor. If there are more than two wires on the motor, they most likely have a 'piggy back' spade connection near the motor. I put a couple of wires in the wrong place while restoring a Diamond J, because I didn't take note on how they were wired. Wired correctly, it made no difference in function....I just felt better.


 


You might try Youtube and see if someone has a pictorial on taking the 1505/1205 apart. I found one for the Diamond J.  It's frustrating as hell that there aren't readily available IPL's and SM's for Lux vacuums over the yrs. Somebody had them....I guess it was a dealer thing.


 


If I had a running 1205 here, I'd take some close-up pics for you of the wiring. I gave my DD 1205 to my son in Brooklyn. My other one which has the best body, is in pieces. I'm not even sure where I put the motor.....so I'm no help to ya.


 


 


Kevin

[this post was last edited: 9/7/2016-22:47]

 

[fantomfan57]

Thanks Steve & Kevin.........

I will take another look when I get a chance.

I found I was and am trying to work on multiple machines at the same time...ie, waiting for parts and such and moving on to another project.

I finally am focusing on one at a time and finishing it first before moving on.

Much better plan.

Thanks again, guys.

 

[blknblu]

The extra wire comes from the thermal fuse or motor protector.
Some bypass it.
I'll have to look for my diagrams.

It is usually wrapped up and taped to the motor.

Correct item is Klixon 7AM thermal protector
specs are circled in red.

 

[bikerray]

The rear bearing is bronze that will use oil, the front bearing is a ball bearing which is packed with grease NOT OIL.

 

[real1shep]

I....

never said their ball bearings were oil lubed...I said sintered bronze bushings were oiled. If one can't tell the difference between a grease packed ball bearing and a sintered bronze bushing, then maybe they shouldn't be working on small electric motors.


 


Kevin

 

[kirbykid63]

That motor looks clean.

I would also check the cord winder prongs and see if they are making good contact with the other prongs on the left side of the body. I rebuild many 1205 motors and it is rare that the armatures fail,but it does happen pull the motor brushes and see how long the carbons are they should be about at least a half inch long if the are shorter replace and reseat them.

 

[jsfulsam]

I ran the motor outside of the unit, and after a few minutes of running it at full speed, the brushes shoot long yellow sparks, and the motor slows down. Seems like these sparks were the "Rattling" noise I was hearing.

This was after I cleaned the brushes and their holders out with alcohol, so I'm not sure where to go from here.

Again, the big thing here that I want to draw attention to is the fact that the motor runs absolutely fine for a few minutes before doing this. I've already ordered another 1205 motor. Best case I can just drop it into the vacuum and get back to work, worst case I at least frankenstein something out of the two motors.

 

[bikerray]

Are the sparks following around the commutator?
Does the motor get hot when it slows down?
Are you getting a burning smell as it slows?
If so then the armature is going bad.

 

[jsfulsam]

Yes to all of the above, which makes me glad I ordered another motor. Hopefully it'll be in better shape.

 

[real1shep]

Sure sounds like the armature is going bad. Easy enough to check out as I outlined above. There is a vendor on eBay who has very good NEW armatures that are rewound properly....probably better than OE and if not, as good. They are not cheap though which makes it somewhat attractive to buy another used motor and go through it....hoping the armature is sound. Personally, I'd buy the rewound armature and then go through the motor myself.


 


I wouldn't pay any kind of a premium for a "rebuilt" motor on eBay, unless you knew for a fact that the seller does stellar work. It's just small motor repair....if you were in the biz you'd have the luxury of donor motors and/or be able just to toss a bad armature after testing and examination.


 


Kevin


 


 

[this post was last edited: 9/12/2016-14:01]

 

[jsfulsam]

So the motor arrived today. It's a Super J motor, and while it has the reputation of being Electrolux's strongest motor, at the end of the day, it isn't going to fit into the 1205.

Kevin, if I'm able to send this super J motor back and get a refund, I'm definitely going to jump on the new armature deal. $50 bucks won't hurt that much, especially for something that looks like it'll solve the problem. Wish I'd known about it sooner. The only problem with replacing the armature is there's a screw in my 1205 motor assy that's had its head completely stripped. My fault.

Funny thing about your comment of being in the biz, my late grandfather on my father's side worked in the Old Greenwich elux plant, and, I kid you not, wound armatures (Even have pictures, and old plant brochures to prove it!). The irony is killing me.

 

[jsfulsam]

So, I've finally been able to get the armature out of the motor in order to test it properly. Did the 180 test, along with a bar-to-bar test, and nothing seems to be out of place.

I'm still not sure if cleaning the commutator is the problem. I would think that gunge on the commutator would cause a problem instantly, and not 5 minutes down the line, but I could be wrong.

 

[jsfulsam]

Apologies for the triple-post, but I have a new a theory.

The armature tests fine, as I've stated before. My theory is that it's a brush problem. One of these brushes seems ever-so-slightly too small or something, because it moves more freely side-to-side (Not in and out) than the other one. I think that brush is what's causing all this grief.

This is reinforced by the fact that that brush was the first one to start sparking during tests. Also this brush tends to be noisy, and a light tap on the holder tends to change that noise, make it louder or softer, etc.

I mean, it makes sense. Vacuum runs for a while. Brush shifts, and maybe even rotates a bit. Motor gets angry. Sparks ensue.

I certainly hope so, at least. Brushes are cheaper than an armature.

 

[fantomfan57]

I enjoyed....

reading this post, very informative. I have not worked on vacuum motors, but might in the future. I understand that there is a tool and procedure for "breaking in" new brushes.

Thanks all.

 

[real1shep]

Yes.....

brushes are cheaper than armatures....lol. Although the brushes for the Super J are ridiculously priced. Do try some new brushes, while cleaning up the commutator. 


 


These vacuums are so old that it's not above a PO to throw some other brush in there that might fit, however poorly. People are often given these vacuums over the yrs...that doesn't exactly promote quality care and service. It would be really cool for you if it was just a brush problem.


 


I had a 1205 once that slowed down a bit while in long use....intermittently. Cleaning up the cord winder contacts, lubing with dielectric grease and replacing the cord worked in that instance.


 


<a name="start_32764.359186"></a>Funny thing about your comment of being in the biz, my late grandfather on my father's side worked in the Old Greenwich elux plant, and, I kid you not, wound armatures (Even have pictures, and old plant brochures to prove it!). The irony is killing me.



 


That's awesome! Yrs ago in one of these old threads, the son of the Charlie McKee(the president of US Lux) came on and introduced himself. Considering what he could have contributed to the Lux history and all the anecdotes, he could have been treated a LOT better. He should have been courted politely by the Lux knowledgeable here. That's all I want to say about that.


 


Kevin