Does Rainbow E2 Black really need a hepa filter?

[vintage_kitchen]

Hey everyone, I was a member in the past, but life took me a different direction, and while I no longer collect, I have missed the site, and I have a question I know only you guys can answer.

I searched the forums, and could find no real consensus on this, does the Rainbow E2 Black really need a hepa filter? I've noticed on my year old Rainbow, it seems to have better airflow with the filter removed, even after rinsing it. Growing up we had a Rainbow D4 SE, and it seemed to have amazing filtration with just water, better than grandma's Kirby Tradition, and at least equal to my aunt's Filter Queen Majestic (maybe a little better, it made the air smell so clean).

So does my E2 really need a hepa filter to be effective at filtering the air, or is it just a gimmick and better removed to improve airflow?

If it really does need the hepa filter, maybe mine needs replaced? Or is it just the nature of dense hepa filter material to somewhat reduce airflow?

 

[electroluxxxx]

It does indeed need a hepa, the hepa does 2 things for the 2 speed units, one it captures the particles that bypass the separator and yes that does happen as not all dirt is water soluble, and 2 it gives the machine some back pressure... these machines actually have quite a bit of airflow and waterlift. As a matter of fact without the hepa filter In place the machine will start to disperse water out the back of the unit.
Hopefully this answers your questions and it’s good to see you back!


I’m rereading your post too, hence the edit, but you should never rinse a hepa filter regardless of whether or not states it can be rinsed. That would definitely explain the lack of airflow. Definitely replace it and you will notice a world of difference!

[this post was last edited: 1/27/2020-22:50]

 

[lesinutah]

Rinse

The e series 2 speed gold, silver and platinum HEPA filters are the same.
You clean the filter. It's a heavy duty filter that's made to be cleaned.
Rexair tells you to rinse it. They made the machine you need to follow the instructions to have best performance.
There is a few Rexair dealers who can answer on this board. You can also call authorized service center. I think they know.
Les

 

[vacuumdevil]

It definitely needs a HEPA filter.

Water is actually a pretty poor medium to filter with.



Skip to 22 minutes here.

 

[electroluxxxx]

Les

If you haven’t learned already I am a dealer as well as service personnel for a local distributor.

 

[kloveland]

Yeah

Not a big fan of Rainbow. It takes very little dirt to make clean water look dirty. The older Rainbows had only 50 inches of waterlift or lower and I don’t like dragging around a pan full of water with me. Also I agree water is not a good filter medium.

I do pull my SE out every once in awhile. I do like using the fragrances with them and it is kind of fun to watch the water swirl around. You can mop with them which is nice!

 

[rivstg1]

It’s my understanding. That HEPA filters were added to get more certifications for Rexair AS purifiers AND to get around the ( justly so)criticisms about not capturing ALL materials( older ones couldn’t capture no water soluble substances ( ash, drywall dust, talcum power etc). I’ve never heard of the newer ones needling back pressure ( not outright disputing it though). I would feel quite comfortable using my e2 black w/o a filter and have at times IF I’m changing the water often and not trying to p/u non water soluble materials.

 

[mark40511]

I've asked this before

because in 2006 when I bought my rainbow new, I used it for 5 years before changing the HEPA filter. And I didn't notice over that time if I was losing airflow. It felt the same to me, air always pouring out the back and good airflow. If you live in a house where people use baby powder, or flour gets on the floor in the kitchen or any type of super fine powerdery substances, you might as well plan on changing rainbow HEPA's frequently....but if you're just vacuuming up regular dust/dirt/food crumbs, pet hair, etc, no dust should skip the water and go onto the HEPA. You can get generic HEPA's for around 13 or 14 dollars. My last filter I replaced was generic and it's worked perfectly fine over the years.

 

[vaclab]

Kevin, I Performed Some Tests A While Back

And hopefully, these videos will answer your original questions about Rainbow filters.

Reconditioning A Smelly Moldy Rainbow HEPA Exhaust Filter


Rainbow E2 HEPA Filter Tests Old Versus New


Closed Room Air Cleaner Test Using A Rainbow E2 Platinum


Bill

 

[vacuumdevil]

To clarify it's generally a bad idea to rinse a HEPA filter.
They're fine enough that you'll end up getting the impurities from the water in them. The parts and expensive enough to replace just replace it.




@vaclab you made an incredible amount of video on a $30 Filter.

 

[rivstg1]

Vacuum devil

How did you come to that conclusion ? From what I watched, despite several people's antidotal evidence(opinion) the washing of a hepa filter is doable .....i.e. can be done w/o sacrificing airflow or increasing air emissions. I"m glad he did all that testing to address questions of many vac collectors, to give credence one way or another to whether washing them can be helpful.

 

[vacuumdevil]

@rivstg1 #419222 #419307 I talked about it in the post above on video .

The HEPA filters are inexpensive enough they should be changed.
Not only is there a time cost benefit analysis to this.
But my 16 years as a vacuum technician ,I can tell you washing HEPA filters does not do them any good in the end.
As stated before will not acknowledge anything from vaclabs. Nothing personal.
I hope that answers your question of how I came to my conclusions.I believe you have disagreed with me enough on here to know who I am. If not allow me to reintroduce myself with the link below.

Have a great weekend!

https://www.youtube.com/user/ghostofchicken/about?disable_polymer=1

 

[lesinutah]

Mike

I knew one of the Electrolux usrsnames was yours. Either you post in contemporary forum or you don't post much. There's a few Electrolux usernames threw me off. I also thought you were a couple years older.
Les

 

[robsmith1977]

Hepa Filter

I can tell you from experience when I owned an E1 series that when I had removed the hepa filter to actually try to answer this myself, There was dust leaving the machine and I'm not sure why. I am an experienced Rainbow user so I know WHEN you need to change the water while using the Rainbow. I had a lot of concern from that moment on that Rainbow's do not filter as well as they claim. I eventually bought a new filter and installed it, then sold my last Rainbow. I currently use vacuums that have a fool proof bag change indicator to help me with determining air flow.

 

[tekjunkie28]

No you don't NEED a HEPA filter but I do recommend using one. Water does work pretty good at filtering. If not the HEPA would clog almost instantly.

I do not understand why the vacuum needs back pressure. Its not a car.... It also will not suck up water past the separator if its working properly. I have make a hepa filter frame that I use when I need Ultimate airflow and I want to preserve my usual HEPA.

If price is an issue then just order the filter through rainvac. They are awesome and its worth it, order you a HEPA filter and a few belts and some fragrances.

 

[robsmith1977]

Update

I need to update my opinion on this subject. I currently am using a D3C quite often because I don't have much carpet at the moment. I always use a 4 quart water basin which I would always recommend when cleaning with a Rainbow. The additional water provides better filtration. I think the newer E series Rainbows have a lot more power and should definitely have a hepa filter installed and changed out once a year. Just my opinion.

 

[panasonicvac]

Personally, I'd rather have a filter in any Rainbow E series. But if I'm worried about losing performance but still want to have the best filtration on any water vacuum, I'd get a central vac instead. Aqua-Air, CycloVac, DrainVac, or Kenmore, it doesn't matter to me.

 

[tekjunkie28]

Im about to open up a can of worms here but anyone that knows about home construction or energy efficiency will know this stuff.

1.. NO vacuum needs a hepa filter. Unless you have asthma and vacuuming actually affects you of others in the same room then you don't need a hepa filter. Even then the HEPA is WAY overkill for filtering.

2. What are you trying to achieve by using a HEPA filter on a vacuum? You aren't going to be getting any benefits from using a HEPA while vacuuming once you the machine is off. Your air infiltration rate and living location will determine how dirty your air is in your home.

If you are trying to filter your air in your home then you need to upgrade the filtration of you HVAC system. By that I mean getting a static pressure test done and determining what filter you need/want. There is some math involved but you want to keep you total system static under 0.5" w.c. with filter. To do that you will need to enlarge the filter area or add another filter box. I have never ran across a house that had large enough filters to keep a system running efficiently.

If thats not possible then build a Comparetto Cube or buy HEPA Air purifiers that are the largest you can get... but doing the machines adequately will likely cost as much or more then resizing your HVAC filters.

Another solution is which we all should be doing is air sealing our homes. At least that way we can control where our fresh air comes from in our homes and then filter it.

Lastly and most important is that HEPA does nothing for VOCs and CO levels. You need to get that air out of your home and bring in fresh, clean air. A vacuum should only ever be used to remove dirt from the floors and surfaces, NOT to clean the air you breath.

 

[kloveland]

Shae,

I agree. I think hepa filters are not necessary for the reasons that you stated. Unless the operator and/or persons in the room have a medical condition or respiratory issues as you also stated.

I can understand why this topic comes up so frequently on this site since it is a vacuum cleaner forum. If a reader on here is obsessing over a little dust in the air please ask yourself the following questions: 1. Do I maintain a healthy weight for my body type? 2. I’m I eating a healthy diet. 3. I’m I making good lifestyle choices? Such as not smoking and getting the recommended amount of exercise? To me the items that I listed are more important than having a hepa filter on a vacuum cleaner.

Back to the original topic. Not trying to bash. I do own three Rainbows and use them from time to time for fun but as I referred to in my previous post I think Rainbow is one of the worst offenders when it comes to emissions. Depending on what you are vacuuming the hepa filter can become clogged on a Rainbow. Every E series that I’ve owned has come to me with a very clogged hepa filter. In summary, yes I think a Rainbow vacuum cleaner or any other water based vac needs some sort of additional filter to catch what escapes the water. Because depending on what you are vacuuming it can be a lot.