bagless suction as it fills up

[uksausage]

there are so many different types of bagless vacuums out there in the market place now, the vacuum with the pleated intank filter the dual cyclonic the multi cyclonic the water filtration etc, but how good are these multi cyclonic machines and dual cyclonic machines at maintaining suction as they fill, i know this is something thats been debated quite a few times.
ive tried so many cyclonic vacuums over the years and they all lose suction as the tank fills up, especially when it fills beyond the max line and the shroud with its little holes gets covered up.
im the first to admit im so lazy when it comes to emptying the vacuum i hate doing it but with most cyclonic machines you have to do it once you hit the max line, but not so with my little vax mach air2, ive never know a cyclonic vac have so much suction when its so full,all the others ive used have never had so much suction when filled to the brim as this little vax,
id like to know your thoughts on this subject. bearing in mind we have our dyson lovers and haters id like your ohnest view on this not just a biased opinion on your favourite vacuum
ive included a link to a video of my mach air i did the other day let me know what you guys think

 

[sebo_fan]

Ignorance is bliss until it starts to go wrong.

When I had my mach Air I continually had to suck up pet hair, bird seed etc and lots of other messes to the point that the dust when past the rubber line at the top and stuff started to leak out the back of it by the square partition at the top. I realised that whilst the Vax is capable of more dust containment than its capacity suggests, the rubber seal isn't as tough as I thought it was and eventually started to pull away from the body of the plastic shroud due to the compacted dirt. The main round filter got the brunt of loose dirt and the whole thing had to be taken apart and de-clogged and refitted. Lesson learnt there!

Owners can build pretty high expectations from their machines either due to the brand's claim or just their own experience. Good or bad though, a lack of maintenance and proper emptying will ultimately ruin the vacuum. Your Mach Air's bin may well be able to contain a lot more than its 1.5 litre capacity suggests, but you're putting strain on the motor even if you don't think the suction is weakening, plus in my experience, the plastic and rubber quality that Vax add to the Mach Air in general is cheap. You only need to brush your finger lightly on the rubber concertina partition that opens too easily on the machine between the body and the square part of the plastic bin at the top before the main filter.

 

[dysondestijl]

Well dyson seem to do this well. You can overflow the bin and it will still pick up great. I will make a video soon

 

[sebo_fan]

Maybe the root cyclone system prevents that, I dont know - but the old ones I had using Dual Cyclones just couldn't cope!

 

[suckolux]

I would never stuff my Dyson, but pretty sure it would keep right on going as my friend did this with the little ball? when they moved into a big house with a cat and dog, wow was it full.

 

[spiraclean]

When using bagless cleaners I never overfill them. Once the dust passes the maximum fill level it often gets stuck around the shroud, and is a mess to clean out. As a general rule I just empty it when the fill line has been reached, or more often if I've just picked up something that I want rid of straight away.

In doing this, I've never noticed a drop in suction with dual- or multi-cyclonic cleaners. I'm sure there will be some suction loss as the filters become soiled over time, which could probably be measured if one had the appropriate equipment. But the same would apply to a bagged machine with dirty filters too. Perhaps manufacturers would reduce confusion on this point if they stated their bagless cleaners do not lose suction *between each emptying*. That's how I've always taken it.

Just the other day I dry cleaned my carpets, scrubbing the compound in with a rotary machine and using my DC07 to pick it all up again. That's pretty much all I use the Dyson for these days, and it copes with the job very well. Checked the filter after emptying and there was only the faintest smidge of dry clean compound on top of the blue sponge layer, with the underside still remaining totally clean. Considering the powder has a similar texture to flour, and I'd just picked up an entire bin full, I really don't think that's bad at all.

 

[sebo_fan]

The thing is, with all respects - you dont have to go through all that nonsense with a bagged vacuum. There's no desire for owners (or shouldn't be anyway) to constantly check the filters, constantly ensure the bin is at a low level or for some rely on the fact too much that the vacuum in question can be packed up with dirt before it is emptied.

 

[vintagerepairer]

confusion

There seems to be much confusion still as to what role filters play. In a Dyson, the pre-motor filter is no different from the filter behind the dustbag in a bagged cleaner, and is there to trap the finest dust which escapes from the cyclone system. But it's the cyclones themselves which keep the dust where it is -in the bin- and this replaces the bag.

On most other none-Dyson cleaners, the filter does the job of the bag, keeping the dust where it is, and getting clogged within minutes of use. In that respect, they are no different, nor better than, a basic Hitachi bagless cleaner of yore, similarly the Goblin Rio or Hoover Jet, all of which were inexpensive machines and required much attention to the main filter so as to maintain cleaning performance.

Until very recently, Dyson has been the only manufacturer who was able to use a cyclone system which was capable of not losing suction power as debris filled the cleaner.

 

[madabouthoovers]

Vintage Repairer is right, but these days there are more and more other models that are not Dysons that use dual or multi cyclones, and some are better than others at keeping the majority of dust away from the pre-motor filter. The Vax Mach Air does a reasonable job with its multi cyclone setup, but it is nowhere near as good as the Dyson DC07, which in my opinion ran for ages before the pre-motor filter started to look dusty.
The worst models for clogging of the pre-motor filters are the cheap single cyclonic models like the Vax Power 3 which uses a cone filter inside the main bin, which is unshielded from the dust, and blocks very fast. The newer Power 5,6 and 7 canisters use a primary separator to spin out most of the larger debris, but still the smaller dust particles get sucked into the main pre- motor filter located in the lid. The Mach Air Mini took the same design and ran the output from the primary separator through a multi cyclone assembly before hitting the pre-motor filter.

Any multi-cyclonic will usually have some form of primary separator and on the Dysons, and Vax Mach Air etc it is the shroud with the many small holes above the max fill line on the bin. This shroud acts like a coarse filter and once it gets covered with debris and the holes all block up, then the suction will be gradually lost, putting much greater load on the motor. For this reason, I don't recommend overfilling your machine like in the video, such that the shroud gets completely covered with hair and fluff, thus blocking off its small holes.
No vacuum today can ever truly say that it never loses suction. They all do, even Dysons, but it is the timeframe in which the filters clog that is the important point. They all need cleaning periodically, its just that the Dyson needs less filter maintenance than basic single cyclone or other bagless models with non-cyclonic action.

 

[suckolux]

I will say my dc 18 almost never has anything on the filter, where my Windtunnel Air is dirty in a month, less effective cyclone technology I suppose?

 

[ultraperformer]

What I don't understand is why Dyson's are requiring more filter maintenence I mean I remember my parents DC04 said wash the filter every 6 months, then their DC18 I think was 3 - 6 months now the DC38 I have is every 1 month feels like we're moving backwards.

Dan

 

[suckolux]

my 18 says 6 months, but it always looks fine

 

[ultraperformer]

DC18

The odd bird feather from the budgies and a bit of seed husk used to make it through to the filter, funny they put 3-6 months on the UK ones.

 

[dysondestijl]

Here is a video I made

 

[baglessball]

Apparently...

I spoke to a Dyson engineer who told me that the reason that dyson reduced the filter wash intervals is that at 6 months most owners forget that the filters need to be washed. So by reducing the time meant that owners would remember, or at least remember to wash them once in a 6 month period, rather than not at all.

 

[suckolux]

I could see that, I totally forget when I last washed it out, of course a few vacuums here to keep track of makes it tougher I think?? Or am I getting old

 

[sebo_fan]

Despite the short interval for washing filters, have the inspection tubes etc become more elaborate though? I recall on my DC04, it was a ruddy nightmare to ensure suction was sealed all the time as the bottom inspection tube/ U bend thing kept sliding out.

 

[jfalberti]

My DC 15 Animal

gets it's filter washed every 6 months without fail.  I usually do it the first week in January and then the first week in June.  I also have a spare filter so when the time comes, I just swap them out, and then wash the dirty filter at my convenience.

 

[spiraclean]

It does depend on which Dyson model, as some had better separation than others. I know some early DC07s were notorious for letting all sorts of crap through to the prefilter, and have seen some that even had sand and hair on them. Mine has the "type 2" (rerooted) cyclone, and the filters do stay clean for a long time.

Having checked mine out of idle curiosity after my recent dry clean job, I decided they were not dirty enough to require a wash, and popped them back into the machine to wait for another time. Considering what it had just picked up, that's as close to hassle free as it gets in my book. Could have used my bagged vac instead, but that would have meant throwing away a new bag as soon as the job was done. Just seems a little wasteful seeing as they normally last about two months LOL. It's all about picking the best tool for each job I guess.

Remember how the DC02 was often a dusty mess inside when you opened the top cover? I think it's because the inner cyclone was rather short and stubby compared to its upright cousins. The DC05 was better, but even that would occasionally let the odd hair through to the prefilter. The DC24 cyclone assembly was tiny also, and I was really surprised at how much hair and fluff it let through. The filter on mine because visibly dirty after just a week or so, so it was no wonder the recommended filter wash interval was once per month. I would definitely agree it felt like a backward step.