Kirby Sentria 2 not outcleaning a rainbow e2 black

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tekjunkie28

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
127
Location
Western Va
I have a sentria 2 with very few hours on it. I bought it previously from a lady who apparently only used it a few times. The machine was in brand new condition when I bought it about a year ago. I also have a a 3 year old Rainbow E2 Black. After seeing the airflow tests and flow density numbers I figured the Kirby to have MUCH more power than the rainbow. When I’m cleaning though I don’t really feel like it. I feel like my rainbow picks up much better and I have no clue why. I have looked over the machine and everything is correct. Another thing I don’t get but it’s very interesting is that the rainbow gets a silver award from CRI and from some other users tests here that show it as the lowest air glow at the nozzle.


As a side not my rainbow hepa is dirty again with a bit of dust on it. I think I’m
Not dumping the water often enough. What are y’all strategy on that?
 
Like many Rainbow owners you have been conditioned to "feel" that it is the most amazing vacuum on the planet. That doesn't make it true. Perhaps the dirt in your home is special, that is, the mass is such that the frequency of oscillation of the Rainbow brush roll is near the resonance frequency best able to vibrate the dirt out of the rug. Just enjoy your Rainbow without worrying about it.
 
Idk about conditioned... I can literally feel the dirt that the Kirby didn’t pick up go through the hose. I can hear it too. I’ve never been impressed too much but I will say it does clean and it does a good job. It definitely gets up pet hair better then the Kirby. I really like the fact that it makes the house less dusty and I can vacuum under beds.
 
Maybe you didn't have the carpet height adjustment set properly on the Kirby.


 


I assume the belt, brushroll and fan are in good condition?


 


Does the Kirby perform close to or better than the Rainbow when a brand new bag is installed?


 


 


 
 
Kirby's are deep cleaners

There are carpet installers who say they can tell when a carpet was maintained by Kirby. When they pull up the carpet and padding, there is considerably less to no fine "sand" there on the flooring. There could be other reasons of course, like the age of the carpet and the traffic it sees. This was just based on the many years they've installed carpet and what they see. So I'm wondering if the brush roll is adjusted to where the brushes extend about 1/8inch beyond the rug plate or what shape the belt is in. It may be stretched from being stored before you bought it.
 
Very odd...

I've just about abandoned my 6HP Shop-Vac in a dark corner of my garage in favor of my Kirby Avalir, which is basically the same machine as your Sentria II. I first discovered how awesome the Kirby is at cleaning when I was trying to vacuum the carpeted surfaces of my wife's car not covered by the WeatherTech mats with my Shop Vac after we've spent a weekend at the beach. While the Shop-Vac struggled to pull up the granules of fine sand in the carpet and the stray bits of sand in the seams of the leather seats and odd crevices that the sand ended up, the Kirby made quick work of it. I was impressed. From then on, I've used the Kirby to clean the vehicles and anything else that may need to be cleaned with a hose (the dryer, between the sofa cushions, baseboards, etc). My Shop-Vac is now only used to tidy up the garage or for wet pickup (which I've never had to use it for, thank God). I've never used a Rainbow but I was very suprised how much power a direct-air machine like my Avalir had with the hose.
 
I adjust the carpet height by going down until I hear the change in sound which is usually the dot above 3 and then 1 more click. That puts the brush roll at 3. The brush roll is still set to 1 in the head assembly itself so I have 2 more to go. The large middle divide that protects the belt sticks out a little further but here is the pics.

When I use a brand new bag it roars but soon goes to the usual. I don’t typically let the bag get up to the line though. When I had my kenmore elite with a similar style cloth bag it would be packed full before I knew it. Which bags should I use? I have both the green “hepa” and the red bags.

I also have some Berber carpet in the bedrooms but in the basement I have no padding on that carpet so sim how that afffects the Kirby.

If the Kirby performs close to the rainbow with an old bag then maybe I should just use the rainbow. That would save money in bags at least.

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The quicklist for a Kirby that's not performing would be a full bag, bad belt or worn out brushroll. Since you've ruled out all of that, the next items you should check are the emptor and fan. Check your emptor by removing it (carefully twisting it away from the motor unit) and check for clogs in the emptor and the discharge horn. Check your fan by looking into the inlet with a flashlight and rotating the shaft, looking for cracked or chipped blades.

As for bags, use HEPA whenever possible. One of the benefits of a modern Kirby is that it is a very clean, allergy-friendly machine provided you use HEPA bags (and if it is ever serviced, the emptor/hose assembly is in good condition with no gaps, cracks or holes, the fancase is sealed with RTV or silicone and the seal of the front bearing plate is intact).
 
@tekjunkie28 I've been saying this for years. Despite popular belief on vacuum land, Kirby's are only mediocre in terms of power and performance.
I do really like Kirby Vacuums but they're they're definitely lacking in power compared to modern alternatives.
Stepping said rainbows aren't the most powerful vacuum either but they're definitely not underpowered
I talked about this in-depth in this video which upsets a lot of people.

 
The fan have some tiny tiny bits out of it from something hitting hit. It’s not cracked or chipped though. No way that could impact air flow.. otherwise it would be like that on all kirbys.

Emptor is fine. I checked it the other day. It’s totally clear.

Is there a way to unscientifically and quickly test if it’s working correctly? It does pick up the carpet though. Maybe it’s my carpet??
 
The last vacuum to go over the carpet will always pick up additional dirt than the previous vacuum because the agitation from the first vacuum raises the nap and combs the fibers up. Then when you go over it with the other vacuum, it has a clear air path down to the backing where it finds more dirt. Kirby salesmen love to exploit this when they demo vacuums in homes where they have you use your own vacuum first, and then they go over it with the Kirby and it "magically" picks up more dirt and then presto they get a sale. You could go over it with a Dirt Devil even and it would still pull more dirt out (not hating on Kirby - just stating what the sales tactic is).

The Rainbow E2 black is a water filled straight suction tank vacuum with a power nozzle, the Kirby is a full size HEPA upright. You cannot compare them as to who is better - it is apples to oranges. Contrary to belief, I do not think this is is a battle of Kirby owners vs. "the more money you waste the better it is" owners.

What I think might be happening is it is just simply an issue with the carpeting and how it is made today. Carpeting has recently started being made with rubber backing for better flexibility and spill and germ resistance compared to your standard nylon weave backing.

If your carpet backing is rubber this further exacerbates the problem because vacuums will grab right to the rubber and form a seal when they get close enough to it. Kirbys have a lot of suction, and if you give them the opportunity, a Kirby will eat a throw rug whole.

The Rainbow's nozzle is a lot lighter than the Kirby and looks to be plastic, so it floats across the top and doesn't really weigh down the carpet much. The Kirby is heavy, and sinks itself into the carpet (you mentioned you had berber, it looks like a plush nap in the photos). When this happens, it creates a similar effect to the blowing into a bottle metaphor. The vacuum has suction, agitation, etc, but there is no airflow passing though the ultra thick carpeting around the nozzle for the vaccum's suction to lift it out and remove it. So the vacuum is sucking on the carpet with all its might, but nothing is being picked up and carried through into the bag. You can't raise it up any higher obviously as then you won't get deep into the carpet to agitate it. This explains why you are getting all the fine debris off the surface, but the heavier stuff is getting left behind that is deep in the carpet pile.

Usually vacuums become harder to push when they start gripping into the carpet too much, but because the Kirby has power drive strong enough to push furniture out of the way to help motor it along, it usually will go unnoticed.

When I was Googling this problem - I actually found a Vacuumland topic from 2013 of the same circumstances you described - Kirbys hard to push on berber carpet.

https://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?23005

If you skip down to Post# 257931 on that link, there is a mention of changing the brushroll to a softer bristled brushroll for delicate carpets on the Sentria. Maybe that is what you need too?

This all just my theory and I make no claims of it being correct, it's just my best guess on what's going on since you went over the entire Kirby and everything is all in order, and the Rainbow is also working properly, so there's not much left that could be the issue other than the carpeting. Good luck!

PS: Here's a Consumer Reports report on vacuums and ultraplush carpeting.



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Hmm

It's amazing. I love rainbow and I love Kirby's. I also have or had a rainbow black/platinum and a sentria. I sold rainbow and now have a silver. My sentria has a avalir nozzle.
I don't think a rainbow can out deep clean a Kirby. It's apples to oranges. Kirby deep cleans carpets well. I use the rainbow and it smells clean. I don't know about the dirt but the air is cleaner. The rainbow brush roll isn't as aggressive. You have a screamer royal, eureka/sanitairre or a central vac. Those are closest in CFM. The Kirby CFM is roughly 130-150.. rainbow is 95-120.
There completely different machines I think there stop the bagged and bagless water filtration systems. I will note I've never owned or tested a miele, or sebo. I have read great things but this is from vacuums I've used.
You can suck dirt mites etc out of a pillow with a Kirby but rainbow fluffs it up with clean HEPA filtrated air.
Les
 
As a former rainbow user.....

I never had any problem "getting the job done" with the rainbow vacuums. Even with my central vacuum now, I can tell you that you'll spend lots of time if you're waiting to hear nothing but air in the hose. Sometimes even after 10 passes, I'll get another "click" of something through there.

My question would be, design wise, a vacuum like Kirby or Metal Royal has to lift the dirt vertically to pick it up, whereas a power nozzle like Rainbow, or a central vac needs only to push it at a slight angle to get it into the air stream at the back of the nozzle. In this manner, I would wonder that heavier sand may be a bigger challenge for a vac that must lift vertically.

Mind you, my question/comment isn't really an endorsement for anything, since I am not a collector/tester, and am admittedly a central vac fanboy.
 
I only have Berber in two rooms. The carpet you see in the pictures is cheapest carpets from Lowe’s that I used to build a cat tower with. My regular carpet is just that, regular typical medium pile (I assume) carpeting. It’s the same stuff you find in most apartments around that I know of. It has a lot of wear though. I can notice that both vacuums groom well when vacuumed over brand new carpet. Since we moved the living room around to put the Christmas tree up there is a difference in how the machines perform. I can say that my carpet is regular nylon. Although I’m interested now in the rubber backed carpet. Does a Kirby even work on them?

For reference I have 4 cats and 2 dogs and 2 kids. Berber carpet in 2 rooms and the rest is tile and medium pile carpet that’s worn down to a short or no pile in a high traffics area. In the basement I have short pile carpet I think. It’s hard to vacuum with both. The Kirby doesn’t do great I feel bc there is no padding and the rainbow PN just bounces on the floor sometimes so I have to go slow.
 
When I had my first Rainbow demo, the poor salesman was very frustrated because he barely got anything out of my rugs. I opened up the Rainbow power nozzle and noticed that dirt was sitting in the bottom of the power nozzle as well as some carpet fibers. It was obvious that the vacuum had been used for several demonstrations. I was surprised that the fibers could get stuck in the power nozzle like that. Perhaps they need to copy Hoover's wind-tunnel feature. I've never had a Kirby demo, but Consumer Reports has reported that they removed the most dirt of any vacuum tested on medium pile carpeting. Kirby received an Excellent test score for carpet. Rainbow hasn't been tested in a while, but the last time it received a middling "good" score. Canister vacuums have to pull the dirt a long ways through a narrow hose. In my humble opinion, the power nozzle designs of the Rainbows have been their downfall. The lowly Sirena actually was rated better by the carpet and rug institute for removing soil from carpeting in industry standard testing. The Sirena achieved gold status versus silver for the Rainbow.
 
Hmm

The consumer reports are mostly bogus.
Kirby probably is best carpet vacuum. Rainbow is better than siren and any other water base vacuum
I use my wessell werk on rainbow and it gives Kirby a run for the money. I'm not buying a top performer from each. The Kirby would deep clean the carpet.
Rainbow could be a better all around vacuum but it's not a better deep carpet cleaner.
Les
 

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