The advantages of a power nozzle for rugs

[mariusbzro]

Hello everyone,


I'm a new member here. I'm beginning to like vacuums more and more. I need your advice. Here is my situation. I live in a small flat. I have no pets. I have hardfloor and some low cut/low pile wool area rugs (a total of 20 square metres/215 square feet).

I already have a Miele S8310 which I like a lot. But I also want to buy a Sebo D4 with a power nozzle. I have some questions where I need your help.


1) Is a power nozzle much better than a simple straight suction head for cleaning rugs? Is it better at picking up hair?


2) My Miele S8 is 76db. The old Sebo D4 (2100watt motor) was rated 61 db. Is D4 noticeably quieter than the S8?


3) Will a power nozzle damage the wool rugs ? I have seen that Sebo also has a delicate brush roller for the power nozzle. Will that be OK for me?


4) Should I buy an air driven turbo brush instead of the power nozzle? Is it good enough for rugs?

5) The new low power Sebo D4 vacuums appear to be louder than the old ones; they are rated 74 db (the 700 watt motor) and 79 db ( the 1200 watt motor.) The old D4 (2100 watt) was 61 db. I thought it should be the other way round.

Thanks a lot,

Marius

 

[sebo_fan]

Welcome to Vacuumland. Here are my thoughts.

If any rug is not permanently attached to a hard floor by rubber grips underneath and inclined to move when an air driven turbo brush moves on it, the same will happen with a power nozzle floor head.

PN heads are substantially better than air driven turbo brushes but they are usually heavier than the air driven turbo brush.

The D series by SEBO is generally quiet BUT I also own a Miele S8 and it is quieter than the SEBO.

I also have a D2 which is a non-electric version, but I also have a K3 Premium with PN and a SEBO Felix that uses the same ET-1 power nozzle. When the PN is switched on, it creates extra noise, so you do have to compromise on that, and would be louder than the Miele S8310.

I don't believe much in decibel ratings - they are not usually tested in a home but in a sound proof test laboratory where ambient noise around you isn't taken into account.

I have wool carpets - my Felix is fitted with a delicate brush roll. It cares for them better, so yes the delicate brush roller would be better.

SEBO's new EU range related vacuums haven't come onto the market properly yet - as soon as they come onto the market I would expect them to be quieter despite what the decibel levels says. I intend to buy one of their newer ones this year to see if there is any different noise wise, but I can't relate anything at the moment.

Personally if all you have are wool rugs, I would be inclined to just buy the Miele turbo brush for the Miele S8310 and be done with that. After all, it seems silly to have to buy an entirely new vacuum cleaner - and the brush rolls on Air driven turbo brushes aren't very abrasive.

 

[mariusbzro]

Thanks for your input, sebo_fan

I've never thought about putting rubber grips under the rugs but I'll try it.

I'll also buy a turbo brush and see how it goes. Where I live virtually nobody uses power nozzles. And with the exception of Sebo (which is not a well known brand here) you can't find and buy vacuums with power nozzle. Not even Mieles. I was curious about using one as I've seen that in other parts of the world they come as standard. But I think they're useful if you have wall to wall carpeting.

My S8 has six settingsto adjust suction power. I never use it on the last one. I usually use the third. But I measured them all.
1st- uses 340 watt
2nd-> 660 watt
3rd-> 960 watt
4th-> 1227 watt
5th-> 1500 watt
6th-> 1800 watt

Does this have an impact on the speed the turbo brush spins? I guess there must be a minimum setting I have to use with the turbo brush.

 

[kenkart]

From what I have read..

In Europe, straight suction canisters are very popular, my take on it is this, mostly I use straight suction, I do have and use several power nozzle canisters, but not all the time, for areas with heavy sand...near the ocean etc, a power nozzle is really good, also for very plush carpet, but for short nap carpet, that is well cared for...by this I mean, not abused, straight suction cleans just as well...in my opinion..which may not account for much!LOL

 

[sebo_fan]

No worries Marius - glad I could help. Im sure others will have a say and I welcome that. It is always good to have a discussion rather than a block answer. Some EU countries do have PN vacuums but usually it is straight suction for homes that have hard floors than carpets.

However, where in Europe are you? SEBO sell power nozzle models in most of their EU countries, just depends on where you are. Miele also sell PN models but you must have the plug on the Miele itself to connect the PN, from what I understand.

The air driven turbo brush does depend on the speed you set at it for pick up. The higher the better, which will unfortunately counter act the noise level from your Miele. It surprises me in all these years that Miele haven't done anything with the design of their air driven turbo brush. It can be too noisy in the highest setting IMHO but I tend to use mine in the 3rd and 4th setting.

It is interesting to read your outputs of watts per speed selection. I Have never tried researching them because half the time I don't really believe in them. When you look at the rating plate on any vacuum, it tells you the actual wattage between the speeds and in turn, when Miele have written "300" on a 1500 watt vacuum cleaner's speed dial, it makes me wonder how 300 watts is indeed possible, when the minimum output is 1000 watts.

I have also just bought a cordless stick vacuum with a brush roll - it does a marvellous job on bathroom rugs on my tiled floor - and it doesn't have a lot of noise - but does the job of pick up quite well.

Conversely, the less power a brush roll has on cordless uprights IMHO means less of the mat to get choked or caught up on the brush roll. The Miele air driven turbo brush is good but you may have to keep your foot on the mat to stop it from being sucked up on the edges.

 

[mariusbzro]

I don't live near the ocean - so there's not much sand in my flat. We also take off our shoes and walk barefoot or put on some slippers when we come in. Everyone here does so. The bags in my vacuum are full of dust, hair and other fluffy stuff. The bags look like a soft pillow

I live in a small country in Eastern Europe, I don't think you've heard much of it: Romania. Unfortunately, unlike Sebo, Miele vacuums aren't sold with power nozzles.


I have a device that I plug into the mains socket. Then I connect the vacuum plug to this device and it shows the power consumption in watts. The electrical power drawn from the mains socket by different appliances varies according to the settings used. For example, when I browse the net my desktop PC uses 150 watts. But when I do some video encoding it uses 220 watts. It's the same with household appliances.

I'm also curious about a Hepa filter. Does it make a substantial difference to the air quality? I have no allergy and I've only used the standard Miele air filter that comes with a set of four bags. It is Ok so far.

http://www.mivarom.ro/catalog/product_info.php/priza-contor-consum-energie-hg01em-p-5320

 

[DesertTortoise]

If you have pet hair nothing will clean it as well as a powered floor brush. For short nap area rugs with no pet hair you can do an ok job with a straight suction floor brush, and for hard flooring all you need is straight suction. For deep pile carpets and/or pets, you need some sort of powered floor brush. I don't think a turbo brush is enough either. They slow down and stop if the nozzle sucks down into the carpet.

Btw, sometimes manufactures sell suction only canisters that are also sold with powered hoses and floor brushes in other markets. What this means is that just because Brand X doesn't sell a vacuum with an electric hose and powered floor brush where you live doesn't mean you are stuck. With some determination you can find the correct parts to wire in an electric hose and buy a floor brush and hose used on ebay. I did exactly this to make a suction only canister vac use an electric hose so I could run a powered floor brush.

 

[sebo_fan]

Yes but the problem here is that the base level starter vacuum in the S8 series, the Miele S8310 that Markus has does not have a power connection on the body of the Miele vacuum. All those in the U.S have those connection points if they offer the facility of a PN floor head.

So, even if you do wire up your DIY tips, you can't exactly locate a power plug on a Miele without having to have degree in electronics and engineering, possibly like yourself. Then you'd have to source the right manual and service manual for that model to engineer the connection plug into Miele's main body (it is behind the flap of the tool casing), then faff about with the PCB controller so that the machine recognises the connection plug and then after all that, buy in the connection fitted suction tubes for use on the Miele vacuum. Then after that the actual PN head.

Miele do offer a rechargeable cordless PN floor head fit for all Miele cylinder vacs but after I expressed interest in it on here, I was advised strongly by several U.S Miele owners that the rechargeable one isn't reliable.

You may as well as buy the actual vacuum cleaner with a power nozzle - and as I have said in my previous response, Markus may well find an alternative but dependent on the country he is in, he may well be able to buy a cylinder vacuum already with a power nozzle attached.

Markus, where in Europe are you?

 

[mariusbzro]

I only have low pile wool rugs. No pets.

I live in Eastern Europe, in Romania. ( ever heard of it ?

 

[DesertTortoise]

Sebo_Fan, you don't need any kind of a degree to suss out a simple hose power connection on a canister vacuum. You make it sound so hard when it isn't. Kids with nothing more than a high school diploma wrench on truly complex aircraft for the Navy I love. A vacuum cleaner is child's play. A little patience and attention to detail is all one needs. Do you think all these vacuum shop techs have degrees? Laughable.

Since a suction only canister will have the off/on switch on the vacuum body and not the hose, you don't need to know the pinout of a pcb. One lead for the hose is attached to the ground lead from the cord reel, the other lead attaches to the hot lead coming from the off/on switch. It's that simple. If you want to switch the power on and off at the hose, now you need some knowledge of the pinout on the pcb, but even that isn't terribly difficult to do. Vacuums are not very complicated things.

 

[gottahaveahoove]

I have taught students

who came from Romania! Small world!

 

[sebo_fan]

DT - you don't need a degree to work out that a power nozzle is not going to the be the most convenient way to clean a rug either.

How on earth have we managed in Europe for so many years when it comes to cleaning rugs free of hair? An air driven turbo brush. Either the hand held ones, which admittedly means you need a lot of time on your hands, which you, yourself might have, or the full size ones that Miele and countless other brands supply which clean the rugs effectively for those who work from 9 to 5 and don't have time to clean home.

"You make it sound so hard when it isn't"

Well, I'll tell you what. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Make a video and let the world know. Beat the brands and let the consumer make something. Buy a European straight suction Miele vacuum, put your connection to it and lets see just how easy it is to convert a straight suction canister vacuum one that can use a power nozzle AND connectivity to the main body.

Do bear in the mind the electric loading that the vacuum cleaner can take though.

 

[sebo_fan]

Markus - Romania isn't that unknown - it is where the Dacia car brand comes from!

Miele make two upgradeable filters for their vacuums outwith the "free" Super-Air-Clean filter. Unlike other brands, you can choose to have either filter.

For example, whilst other brands only offer a "HEPA" filter for pet owners, Miele make two types - the slightly cheaper charcoal filter "Active Air Clean," for pet owners and smokers, or the "HEPA" filter for allergy sufferers.

I have only ever had the HEPA filter once - and there is very little difference to my nose between the Active Air Clean filter and the HEPA filter. Don't bother going with the HEPA filter by Miele because it can be quite expensive to buy - if you want to upgrade to make your Miele appear quite neutral smelling when in use, say after three bags have been used in it, then consider the Active Air Clean filter. It regularly requires a yearly change but this can change due to whatever your Miele picks up. I would imagine based on your lifestyle that you could end up using this filter for 3 years at the most before it requires to be changed.

Otherwise you could just drop a couple of teaspoons of bicarbonate soda/baking powder into the bag if you want to neutralise the dirt smell and allow the free Super Air Clean filters do last the 4 bags as they are supposed to. Generally I wouldn't bother upgrading the filter unless you have pets, because pet hair rots in a bag as well as the associated oils within the hair that can reek after a short period of time.

 

[sebo_fan]

In reaction to power nozzle versus air driven...

DT maintains power nozzle is better than air driven? Well have a look at the Numatic Lewis - a new model here which has 580 watts to conform to the new EU law. You'll see that the air driven turbo brush (at 2:00) used with this rather famous British vacuum is an air driven turbo brush. Can you see the grooming effect? Can you see what it is doing to the rug in question? Maybe you can hear it. I don't see any stopping of this brush roll, do you?



Given the increased power of the Miele, you'd get the same kind of performance with their Wessel Werk designed turbo brush - there's even a handy slider on the floor head that adjusts for easier gliding/thicker pile. An air driven turbo brush is also substantially lighter than using any main size PN head - a factor that some brands in other countries are trying to re-design.

It reiterates the fact that a suction canister vacuum should be more versatile than a upright vacuum and has better ability to clean above the floor line and on floors with interchangeable light weight tools.

 

[mariusbzro]

Lots of helpful info here, I'm happy I signed up.



Sebo_fan, I'm glad you've heard of Romania. Dacia is made here by Renault with local work force. They're cheap, reliable but quite noisy at high speeds.


Now it seems obvious to me that an air driven brush is the best option for my low cut rugs.


Miele Hepa filters are rather expensive. And the bags, too. Luckily, one bag lasts at least three months for me. I'll try putting some baking powder in the bags.


I've done some calculations and found out that the cost of owning a Sebo vacuum (bags and filters) is much lower than that of a Miele. That is one of the reasons I'd like to have a Sebo D2/D4 in the future. I'm also thinking about buying a used K1 on ebay if I can find one with at a good price. A brand new K1 is around 230 pounds at my dealer.

 

[sebo_fan]

The K1 Airbelt is good but the bags are much smaller than the S8310 - the nearest rival to the S8 is the SEBO D2/3/4 series. The K Airbelt series is made for small homes. I get through a Miele GN bag every 3 months or so too, so a box should last a year.

The SEBO D bags last me far longer - one box has lasted about 1.5 years close to 2.

Stick with your Miele for the time being and when SEBO Romania bring out the D series, see if it suits. Sadly Miele and SEBO tools are not interchangeable.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Sebo_Fan, I'm taking care of a sick fiancee and a newborn, but when I get back home in a month or so I'll post up photos I took of converting a suction only canister to use an electric hose. It couldn't be simpler. And just to outrage you some more I'll show you the fifteen minute, $5 conversion to allow me to use a Wessel Werk powered brush on a standard Kenmore electric wand with that vac. Nice combo for anything but deep pile carpet (no height adjustment, WTH?). Cheap and easy conversions that don't require much more than basic mechanical skills.